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Keith Hillard - 2:52:47 PM
Yard of the cost of about, I think, a little under 2 million. And we ended up with a, with a 18 week shipyard with the cost, I believe around eight or 9 million and stuff we've done. I'd also like to respond to Alan about employment. The union has made proposals. The unions have made proposals to DOA about assisting with hiring and getting more work occurred or getting more work hired. People hired ways to get people hired with no response out of the department of labor department of administration. However, whoever is handling that for the state. There's, there's been recommendations put out there and I, I believe there's a lot more we could do to get more employees on board and meet the, the definite shortage that we have Bob. I would, if you're having a hard time getting through to them, get 'em to meet, and I would certainly entertain all avenues to hire more people. I work out that along one, Adam,
Wanetta Ayers - 2:53:48 PM
Thank you, Shirley. I, I have one observation and I guess a question one is we've heard several times that the governor's office may be working on something with regard to an accounting structure so that any saved revenues as a result of the infrastructure act do not get swept into the CBR. And it would be helpful certainly to know what the timeline for that is and what the governor's office may be thinking in that regard. I think it, it will definitely weigh on and perhaps shape how the in infrastructure investment act monies are used. And then the, the question is we've got five or six vessels in layup or overhaul. What are the staffing consequences here? Because we, we hear short staffed, but, but if you've got is, is what's the what's the operational adjustment, are people taking shorter hitches or what, what what's happening in terms of vessel staff that may be assigned? I know, I know some, some staff stay with the vessel, but what, what's the, what is, what's the consequences here with, with staffing is that affecting people's view of the employability or the, the, the alignment of employment with the Alaska Marine highway system and their needs?
Katherine Keith - 2:55:40 PM
Yeah, I can, I can respond in two parts here on the first comment. We internally don't actually have that much information, but I can share if you weren't there at the Southeast conference that the chief of staff mentioned this, that there was a bill being introduced potentially next week and he addressed that publicly. And so we're, we're all waiting for, and that had to do with the cost, the, our, our fairbox recovery, so that our receipts go into a stabilization fund. So we expect that there'll be more information for this board and, and potentially a request in support that correction goes. And the second item on how the layout extended over time or time in the yard impacts our workforce. We have a lot of comments that it certainly leads to lower morale and there's staff that are in extended layouts in the yards, there's the negative impact on morale. So that one concern, but as I understand it from our, our dispatcher, we, we still are having a typical time getting folks on the vessels just cause of our staffing shortages. And we do have some more detailed information about that, but I'd like to open that up to captain obvious if we had another comment.
John Falvey - 2:57:06 PM
Yeah, Catherine, thanks. I've been very, we listening here. I mean, you know, talking about just the, you know, the, the, the yearly state overhauls, the COIs, the recertifications, I mean, we, we go in with a plan, we go in with a work list. We go in with what that's gonna cost. We meet way out ahead of time with shipyard management right down to, who's gonna be a, in the dry dock one, especially when we have multiple ships in there, you know, we're worth the SMRs. Some of that is over the last few years, been impacted by lack of staffing. I'm, I'll, I'll admit that and, and we're doing the best we can. I, I think we're gonna greatly improve that with a, you know, you know, with a tractor, some of it, we have to kind look at, you know, you know, what's on those lists and, you know, you know, you know, the money end of it.
John Falvey - 2:57:59 PM
And, and, and, you know, trying to stay within our budgets, you know, you know, this is, this is state capital money and, and that money rolls over it. It doesn't, you know, go away like, like, like, you know, GF operational money. It, it, it does, it does roll over, or, you know, one challenge with this part of our operation, you know, attempted to use federal dollars is Biomark issues where we gotta be very careful with foreign steel products with federal dollars. So we, we always gotta take that into a account. We have asked for more state capital money in this next budget taken into account that, yeah, we've, we've got quite a few SMRs and maybe we get some of this stuff cleaned up, you know, like captain Keith said, look what the Matt Nuki came in with. We had a budget for that and look how long we ended up in there and look what it ended up costing us.
John Falvey - 2:58:59 PM
That was all discovery work for the most part stuff that we just got into. And it got worse and worse and worse, mostly steel. So those that's, that's really challenging. And these ships are old. These ships are 50, 60 years old, you know, we've over the last 10 years, spent a lot of federal money in capital improvement projects. And, you know, we're always spending 15, 18, 20 million a year of state money on, on, on the capital side to keep 'em certified and believe me, the coast guard and the abs would not let 'em sail out of there if they weren't safe. And, you know, so it's challenging, but the best plans we do go with a plan and a budget and, and a timeline, and the older these ships get the more challenging it it gets. So those are kind of my overarching thoughts on that as far as crewing.
John Falvey - 2:59:55 PM
Yeah. We're shorthanded, it's, it's difficult within the last few. I've had as many as 20 ship staff quarantine in a hotel right here in ke can because they've got COVID, that's been a challenge this year. So just, just, just a lot of things, go on trying to get the ships in and out and, you know, readjusting the slots that the ships are. And, you know, for years and years and years, they go in and out, depending upon when their certificates expire, everything from sending life wraps to show, to be repack, you know, an Anchorage of Seattle to, you know, firefighting equipment. And, you know, it's one thing to push that bar back in time back a, you know, you know, you know, back, you know, you're on the certificate time, but then what you start doing is you start losing time on the certificate. You can't push it ahead because certificates run out and the ship's not gonna keep going, you know, you know, legally.
John Falvey - 3:00:57 PM
So, you know, that becomes challenging looking, you know, how could you possibly readjust the ship? So you don't have a gap. So, so we, we get challenged with that too. And that's something I'm sure this board, we, we can all look at as we, as we, you know, proceed along with looking at gaps and whatnot, but, but the crew and issue is, is it's, it's a big issue. And, and, you know, as, as deputy commissioner said, if there are other ideas, I'm, I'm more than willing to listen because I'm the one trying to get the people hired. So, yeah. So those are some of the thoughts on the SMR shipyards, the state capital money we use to do all this with et cetera, et cetera.
Keith Hillard - 3:01:41 PM
Did you have, I just wanted tow to Ann, you know, we're the, the entry level, the stewards on the slide here, they're, they're accounting for 71% of the vacancies we have right now. And a lot of the problem with that is the shipyards that go, I mean, all the ships are in, you know, basically, you know, November, December, January, and February. So you have people that are never year round employees they're at best eight months employees. So they're, we can't keep those people, that many people working at shipyard. So for a lower staff, they pretty much get a four, four month layoff. And for unfortunately, a lot of 'em find year round jobs during that time and don't come back. So, and as with every other company around the world, with the legalization of marijuana, every we especially battle finding people that can, can pass drug tests. So there's, we have a very huge challenge in finding qualified people. You can't just take people off the street and put 'em in these positions. There's minimum training that needs to happen. And coast guard document, and the TWI federal ID to work on what vessels that they have to be able to obtain before we can put 'em to work. So makes our hiring process quite a bit more, more difficult than, than other shore side things.
Wanetta Ayers - 3:03:09 PM
Thanks. Thanks for that. I, that reinforces some things that I'm aware of and, and have surmised might be the case. I'm wondering from the chart, the high level of resignations in 2019 is that attributable cuz it's, you know, statistically significant there. Well, what's what was driving that
Keith Hillard - 3:03:33 PM
Too many jobs, too many jobs, too many better paid jobs jobs with their home every night, too expensive to have kids in daycare, keeping one person home, instead of both people have. I mean, I can't, I can't, I can't quantify that. I just know we've been losing a lot of people so
John Falvey - 3:03:51 PM
Well let's Kevin, but we also know that there is a nationwide shortage of Mariners. Be it licensed or documented the unlicensed Washington state fairies is probably struggling worse than we are right now. And they're in a major metropolitan area, much easier to track people to live in a place like that, but it's very expensive to live in Alaska. It's very expensive to it here. You know, we, we do have a $1,000 signing bonus in place for the new employees. And I have hired 40 new ones since we started our program, got another 50 working on documents, but it's, you know, I mean, it's, it's, it's a nationwide problem and it's an especially big problem with merit license and documented and we know it for a fact.
Wanetta Ayers - 3:04:38 PM
Yeah. Thank, thanks for that captain. I, I would also say that just having worked on the maritime workforce plan someti some years ago, not, not looking at Marine highway, that there were significant demographic, you know, headwinds against maritime employment and that with, with the folks aging outta the workforce, or choosing early retirement that, you know, that was impacting the, the, the volume of replacement personnel that would be needed. And, and there just weren't enough people in the, the pipeline in terms of timing to retrain people to, to fill those positions. So I, I sympathize with the, the, the weightiness of this particular problem.
Shirley Marquardt - 3:05:37 PM
We're just in the interest the time. And I know captain Sal are gonna say board here, when, if we, I think we've moved through the question and answer period too kind now to dialogue with the current operating principles.
Katherine Keith - 3:06:01 PM
Thank you. So the remainder of the, a lot of this information came directly out of the financial report and there's some additional information about, about traffic. And so we can certainly follow up with that if you have discussion for items later. So Sam, if you could get us through to 5 38,
Katherine Keith - 3:06:27 PM
We've taken time over the past couple months to understand, you know, how is it that AMH X is currently operating? Because certainly there's some physical choices that have to be made from time, you know, are we gonna extend the overhaul? Are we gonna get our, our, our fleet out and meeting our schedule? And so we came up with the key, these items, and I think this is a great opportunity for am hop to consider. These are principles that you also agree with as this is the capacity that, that you're offering support with, to AMAs management. So I can just kind of read them and then open that up for discussion if that's acceptable. Yeah. So one of that, we'll always err, on the side of safety when making decisions and that of our crew and passengers take over schedule and cost. So this one is pretty pointed, for example, when there's situations where COVID may come in and there's costs for mitigation there, that that is something that, that we're prioritizing over budget necessarily.
Keith Hillard - 3:07:33 PM
Yeah. I'm sorry. Katherine. These are proposed, right?
Katherine Keith - 3:07:38 PM
Yes.
Shirley Marquardt - 3:07:56 PM
In my apologies, it's my fault. I didn't realize that we have still so much ground to cover here on a couple items that I think were important. We talked earlier about the governor's proposed budget and the infrastructure still, and by jumping forward all the way to operating principle in time. I don't think that that a good idea. And with the rest of the support, if you would mind, if we could back up just a little bit and go, go over particularly budget, there's other, there's a lot of statistical information on there that you can already later and understand better, but I, but I think it would be helpful to have a presentation
Katherine Keith - 3:08:49 PM
So, and, and some of the previous slides we speak to the historical weeks of service that had been on since 2014 and the service level that that provided, and then the impact that, that had on our revenue. So there's a direct correlation between when we had a reduced level of service to the reduction in both of our, our numbers of staff and the revenue that we are bringing in. And so moving forward and perhaps, can you both please one slide before 5 33, just because it directly impacts the, the go's proposed budget, but you can see in the second column to the right, this is FY 22, this is our proposed or projected outbreak. So you can see in the blue line that we're be offering 224 weeks of service and what our expected revenue is from there. So while it's not up where we would want it to be, it, it is headed back in that direction.
Katherine Keith - 3:09:49 PM
And the next column, FY 23, it represents the governor's proposed budget. And so these are what that would translate to us is the service level of 362 weeks, which gets us a little bit closer back to FY 14, because the direction that was from to AMAs, if you can go to the next slide, please, is that we work to sail all shift all the time. So we don't want big fitting. We wanna be the needs of communities that we serve and keep our staff employed in going places. And also there's a very large interest in increasing the utilization of our best, along with the reliability into that, do that need to be sailing. And so the proposed budget reflects that and gets the service levels back up. And so that's, what's showing here. Yeah. Thank you.
Rob Carpenter - 3:10:53 PM
Yeah. Just to expound on that. Yeah. All ships all the time was a not literal. You guys don't think so, so that we just threw out to show, you know, we're trying to run all the ships, you know, it's not only physically possible cuz there's lay ups or I, so there's overhauls, but there's no lay ups in the schedule. It's really what we're trying to get at. There's no scheduled cost saving lay ups. There's obviously the, the ships in overhaul. And then the plan is that hub comes online. Once she's out of has her crew quarters and replaces Theora. So Aurora would go into maybe like a backup ship status can fill in for LATI or whatever. Cause otherwise we have two ships that kind of do the same prince William sound routes and maybe sailing on top of each other. So there's some things to look at there, but the idea would be all ships. We Columbia Talina running just, we can
Rob Carpenter - 3:12:37 PM
Yeah, this fine jar. This is, this is strictly the operating of the system. Yeah. So 135 million of federal money and then 5 million, which is representing basically the revenue of the system, cuz there's some costs of the system that can't be paid for federal money, like alcohol sell post, that kind of thing. So sliced out a 5 million pot for utilizing revenue. The system for that, otherwise it, the 1 35 is using the 200 million annually from infrastructure bill for rural dairy operations. So in addition, the maintenance part you're talking about, so we have a capital budget appropriation request for $21 annual overall request for just re-certifying our boats. So they can run every year. They go in their annual overhaul periods. So that's 20 million this year in the governor's budget. It's been historically anywhere from 12 to 15 to giving the growing mainten SMRs everything else that not going up.
Rob Carpenter - 3:14:46 PM
Numbers, this budgets roughly 23 million higher than last year's budget. I mean the intent intent the directions on the governor's office, which I think we put that budget was to maximize operations with ships. We have while being efficient and not running over the top of each other. Right. That's kind of what this budget is based on, including bringing and that's with bringing the two new boats online service, which is add cost. So yeah, from the grand scheme of things, we probably are still we
Shirley Marquardt - 3:15:28 PM
Well with old vessels. Yeah. Yeah. So then the second on the infrastructure bill
Shirley Marquardt - 3:15:37 PM
Kind a, just a, I know there's, there's nothing fixed in stone yet, but there's obviously an awful lot of money there available. I guess one of the questions that I have the 250 million over five years for an electric or low emitting carry pilot program, this one talks over years past about having vessels that are considered kind of one off. They're not, you know, one of these things, it's not like the others. And I understand the interest to going, you know, to looking at other technologies, etc. That are still actually coming online. Is this money sent to this way? Is this something that AMHS and D O T thinks is, is in the best interest of the system?
Katherine Keith - 3:16:35 PM
So what we're doing for the low mission electric ferry concept is we're partnering with other communities, including Southeast conference, as an organization to help facilitate conversations about what is best for the system and, and for our communities. And how can we work together to come up with a solution that's sustainable for that equipment, you know, in, in collaboration with AMHS and the community, it's a pending conversation and we're moving forward with the research about what it is that would work and then how can the communities, which are having a very local day right now, but what they'd like to see out, we just wanna work together on it. And we can expect a meeting in the next couple weeks from this topic. And so we'll see how we can further that.
Shirley Marquardt - 3:17:24 PM
And the reason I ask I can just follow the reason I ask is that, you know, working task with putting together recommendations for long term strategy. So, and if that long term strategy looks like it's got, have this element over here, that's kind of a notes that may or may not happen. I mean, I can, I can see it being part in terms of the long term in part of, I don't know, plannings, right? Either I'm stuff there,
Keith Hillard - 3:17:57 PM
We, we already have a one off boat othe Lituya. And that would perfectly fall into this for an electric vessel for the short amount of run and things it's doing. So you could qualify for that money.
Keith Hillard - 3:18:09 PM
Yeah. Replace Latoya with an electric vessel. So it's a 45 minute run between there and, and, and it's, it's dedicated, that's what it does. And you could easily easily design something that fit that to get some of this money, that to be a star and it's already runoff test.
Paul Johnsen - 3:18:26 PM
You wouldn't have to necessarily replace it. It'd just be a new propulsion system.
Keith Hillard - 3:18:33 PM
Yeah, good. You'd be better off to get a new boat out of it. Wouldn't have a 25 girl boat already, your 20 year old horse, whatever it's can add the technology. The problem with technology right now is we can't go very far with the what's proposed here. So I mean, there's one of the ideal routes. IAG means, you know, the mayor Scags been very vocal about that. Partnering with them, getting a, a ship going bat route seems very feasible, but otherwise, yeah.
Alan Austerman - 3:19:14 PM
Where does that leave this board with this conversation?
Rob Carpenter - 3:19:20 PM
I, I would, that's, that's kind of one of the smaller conversations for this board. I think the next bullet's the big, big conversation. The billion over the five years, very thing is like, like Catherine said, it's working with the locals part and partnering, figuring something out.
Shirley Marquardt - 3:19:40 PM
Kinda nice little addition. Yeah. You know, to, to the structure, I can say, well, you know, we can actually do this as well. Cuz it's coming in under budget, gave us this money and you know, work really nicely. It's, it's part of obviously the large conversation, but it's not side of it. It's something that's gonna come along with it. Maybe in a, in a different piece.
Alan Austerman - 3:20:08 PM
Although two does jump out, sorry, that's that is a number that's substantial. And they're talking budgets and say that we were gonna spend 250 million talking about the electric vehicle that run our ferry system.
Shirley Marquardt - 3:20:31 PM
There there's 250 million of the front and, and one of the that's nationwide, one of the projects I, so there could be a portion of that if, you know, if there's a, a small electric carry that could be designed and constructed for
Shirley Marquardt - 3:20:46 PM
State 70 million between scheduling, they might probably have pretty darn, but that that's not just for left. Yes. What Adam was next. Thank you.
Wanetta Ayers - 3:21:07 PM
Thank you. Well, I just a couple of points here. I, I just wanna remind everybody of the NV, CNA and our history with that as a state, that these kinds of one off projects, although well intended, maybe don't have that much success. That being said, I appreciate the additional information that was just provided about the feasibility of an electric or, or low emitting ferry on specific routes. And I, I hope that it's that all potential routes that could meet those characteristics are considered and, and there is another 110 million, I believe in that same section. And just as a point of information, there's another 110 million in there. So that's it.
Keith Hillard - 3:22:23 PM
And, and I think when that is point, this is a grant program as well. I mean, maybe that was mentioned that competitive grants partnering, I'd like to make a, a motion or suggest an idea for me personally. I think it'd be helpful on the, the website, the, the board thing for, I think it'd be easier maybe for them, for the public, if we all had our own board email associated with our name, just to keep the stuff separate. I don't, I don't know. I think I keep all stuff and the public could comment to us, or I just wanted to make that suggest.
Shirley Marquardt - 3:23:13 PM
Let's talk about that down by the end. I think I know why it's definitely got it. Pro and cons. There's gotta be a way to figure out how to do that properly. Maybe that that's something in turn talk about. But in other words, though, people in the portal send you information directly,
Wanetta Ayers - 3:23:45 PM
Shirley. I just had one other point on the electric ferry. I believe Washington state has already approved one. May I? I'm not sure where they're on the timeline. I know Norway is operating electrics fairs. And so, I mean, it would be good to, to hear from other it's. This is not a top issue for me, but anyway, it would be good to hear from other jurisdictions that are further down the line with regard to electric fairies.
Norm Carsen - 3:24:27 PM
Just real quick. I went online and was looking at electric ferry, boats worldwide. Usually the routes are 22 to 25 miles long and they've got a life small spin on the batteries. I would, there's not $1 outta this. This could be used for anything else. Anyway, I think it's federally required for electric ferry bones.or alternative fuels
Norm Carsen - 3:24:51 PM
Or alternative fuel. And one other thing outta that is becomes time to replace that battery or dispose of it. The municipality, that one, it should be responsible for it, not the state.
Wanetta Ayers - 3:25:04 PM
Can I, again, I don't think this is a, a super high priority, but I, I, I just, I just am thinking of the, our history of going with one off vessels and it's leading us down a road. The money is leading us down a road that we've said we don't wanna go down. I, I think if it's alternative fuels, I I'd be much more open to the discussion about it cert, but you know, even that has its challenges for our state.
Shirley Marquardt - 3:25:34 PM
Well, we're just gonna have to see where this goes, cuz again, we, we are running out of time. We do have some decisions that we're going to have to make. And I know this is a, it's a good conversation to have and I'm sure we have more, but I, unless there's not, we partner, I like to move on.
Keith Hillard - 3:25:48 PM
I just have one other comment. If you gimme a minute here for the commissioner and Falvey, Washington, Ferry's built the dock and Sydney, BC, where something out with the governor, you know, with the, with Sydney, BC to get a dock built there, have you, you guys checked in, in, in with them in the history to get something done in Rupert. I mean, there's already been a plan in place somewhere, for the rubric. Are we gonna get any movement forward on that?
Rob Carpenter - 3:26:14 PM
Are you speaking to the BC fair dock in Ruper? Yes. Utilizing it? No, no. Our own, our own dock in Washington fair is a city BC belt brand new dock. They, so, I mean, there should be already plan and place barrier, a model of follow to get one built for us at is what I'm wondering. I think our plan at this moment is to utilize our dock and then a longer term plan five years or so is to actually move over to the Berry dock, which is right next, put a Causeway in, I think is our plan, but that's up discussion. So the immediate plan is just to get back to as soon as we can, which take, talk about it.
Shirley Marquardt - 3:26:56 PM
Okay. And, and, and they have been talking about its, I was part of those discussion staff, British Columbia talking. And there's just a really low, a lot to think about, especially if, if we're building, we need to use American steel, but if we're building in Canada, they have, you know, it's gotta be Canadian steel. So I hear what you're saying that somewhere along the line, there was a between. And, But, but I'm guessing that's folks that AMHS, they're Catherine, if you'd like, we can start with the next on the agenda, the
Katherine Keith - 3:27:38 PM
Planning for next steps like to forward. And I think one of the items on the infrastructure bill that maybe really pertinent for this board is, you know, with the scenario planning based on what funding may be available, that information speaking every day about what's gonna be possible for us. So being flexible with our projections could be really of value. And we have that a 20 year optimization plan and that next five year engineering master plan, which does include some construction. For example, we're already working on the replacement vessel as we discussed. And furthermore, there is a need for another main liner. There's a need to evaluate some of the cruise orders and there's some topics like that that would impact the maintenance needs of the next five years. And so as we look forward to into next steps, I know that's, that's one thing that management is looking for support and discussion on is what that way look like. And I have a list of upcoming topics of things that I've heard that we'd like further discussion on, including the steps of this performance metrics and also having miles baker, a discussion on infrastructure specifically as it relates to Barry. So those are some additional topics
Rob Carpenter - 3:29:13 PM
I would, instead of miles I would bring in James Marks, our program development infrastructure, basically training that one. Cause I'm in those,
Alan Austerman - 3:29:38 PM
Why we have up there. So I'm still of opinion that short term planning is difficult without long term plan or a basis of a long term plan. So at the next meeting, I, my preference would be that we have you compile all of the planning processes that you've got in place that could lead us into a long term plan and present them to us as this is what we've talked about and you guys can fix the match to or whatever we need. We, we would do whatever we need to do with that to start formulating our long term land. The, I think it, depending on how we set up our future meetings and how many we have is gonna be part of how long it take us to get going, we're gonna go. And so if you wanna spend a half day going through all those performances and then maybe the other half of the day, the next meeting is, is going through the long range planning. If we do those two, it would give us a basis to, it appears to me anyway basis.
Rob Carpenter - 3:31:14 PM
I was talking to my folks break, you know, timing or not timing, but length of meetings. I didn't know if it might be more strong out there to have shorter meetings more often. So two to four hours biweekly or whatever you guys need versus an all day affair. Throw that up in discussion.
Alan Austerman - 3:31:43 PM
I, I, I think with the traveling, I think as long as we're traveling, then you, we should do it the whole day.
Rob Carpenter - 3:31:52 PM
That's a great point. I think if we are meeting more often, they'll be virtual. Okay. Our budget, isn't exactly huge for this board. How many, how many did we think for in person Andy Call for one minimum a year, one minimum and
Shirley Marquardt - 3:32:15 PM
The budget. That was gonna be one of my questions, a budget for,
Katherine Keith - 3:32:24 PM
Yeah. I have the reimbursable services agreement specifically for this board and it's budgeted for 45,000. Most of which is for travel. And then there's 5,000 a combination of services and commodities. So we are happy to prepare a report of where that budget is right now, along with what the expenses were since for the travel coming here. And then we could share you with some projections or for how many trips you may be able to do. Yes, my, my travel as the lay board is also included to the budget along the course.
Paul Johnsen - 3:33:07 PM
So I think if we're doing zoom meetings, I think four hours enough for that two more four hours is a long time zoom, you know, and then I'll go,
Wanetta Ayers - 3:33:27 PM
Well, I was just gonna say, I I'm, I'm hopeful that we can do some combination of in person and online need. And I would agree with the characterization that smaller, more shorter, more frequent meetings may be necessary for a period of time. I'd also suggest that maybe we could do in addition to the task force idea, some smaller work groups to, to tackle certain questions as opposed to not having any conversation with staff or any, or any other experts for a period of time, whether it's a month or, or however long, I'm sorry, my volume is turned way up because I can't pick up some of the speakers. So the clicking and everything is coming in. I apologize. So anyway, I'm hopeful that we could with the resources that have been identified, figure out a pattern that makes sense over the course of is that through June is the 40, 45,000.
Wanetta Ayers - 3:34:40 PM
Okay. And so it would be reasonable to anticipate that there would be another 45,000 in July.
Shirley Marquardt - 3:34:59 PM
We have so much to do. We're all still you getting to know each other. A lot of us are getting to know the AMHS and stuff and D OT folks. There's quite a bit of, I think, more drilling down of information. So we really understand what the intent of AMHS and D OT staff is as we move forward for strategic planning. And, and because of that, I think it's very important that we do meet person several times so we can have, you know, these conversations and said, you know, oh, it's her hand up, this says hand up. And having said that, I also believe that we've heard several things that were talked about today that I think we could use a much deeper dive before we need to get in person, actually start to of them and talking about recommendations. So maybe the next meeting that we had could be a zoom meeting and it would be more of a presentation meeting and, and what I've heard around the table and on the screen or a couple things.
Shirley Marquardt - 3:35:55 PM
Number one, I think that we really need to understand, we need to have presented to us whether it's called the optimization plan or the capitalization plan of the fleet from AMHS perspective, why, which festivals when, why, how they would be replaced or who would be able to stand in for them, what kind of terminal work or doc work would we need for some of the stands in to really find out what it is that the folks who've been, you know, running the system think should happen with it? I think that would be very, very helpful first place. Certainly for me, otherwise, I don't know how to tell 'em, you know, strategies they, we have cause it's, it keeps coming back. We keep carrying it, stop spending money on old ships. We can't keep doing that. It's just the bandaid. That's starting to sit more poorly and more poorly every time you really just gets larger.
Shirley Marquardt - 3:36:53 PM
So I think, you know, we all understand that we all know too, that we have this amazing opportunity for funding that we could utilize if the legislature and the administration agree to put some of this, you know, optimization planner or recapitalization plan, you know, into practice in the next year or two years. I mean, we've talked about putting together a design and putting testy out for what nine years we can't do that. We can't do that. And the nice thing about it is I believe we don't need to, we've got information, we've got plans, you know, folks of them working and looking forward. And I think that if we can get a presentation on that really understand where they're coming from and why, instead of us trying to decide, oh, you should take this, this ship out and put it over here. Yeah. We don't have that expertise.
Shirley Marquardt - 3:37:44 PM
We don't have that experience, but we certainly have a say in it. So I think that that is a very, that's, that's a top, at least from my perspective that we need to have presented to us. The second one comes back to funding the infrastructure funding, not only how we can use it in terms of the plans to leave our lives, this fleet, but what kind of, you know, what are we positive? Do we feel strongly that the legislature or the administration is going to agree with the, you know, the spending of this kind of money? It's a lot of money, but as I've heard, I've talked to folks before on one that has said it too. And so is Robert, you know, this is a chance to take, you know, to take our older vessels that have just completely out use the, their, their life cycle.
Shirley Marquardt - 3:38:36 PM
But we keep putting millions and millions and millions. And in the time we're doing that, we're leaving passengers, sitting at the dock, you know, for weeks late. And we're, you know, the morale of employees is going down the tank because they're just, you know, they're stuck. So that feels like a really strong piece that we have to talk about or have a press about as well. So we can start to figure out how these things are all gonna piece together, governance options. I would really love to have a presentation, have look at some different options, whether it is whether she stays at, you know, with a, a line agency in DT or goes to D C, C E D as a corporation, or does something somewhat like what DC fairies did, which was create a ferry authority. You know, there are a lot of ways to blah blah, but there are several ways to skin the cat.
Shirley Marquardt - 3:39:29 PM
And, and I I'd really like for us to have somebody be able to sit down and, and, you know, here's how this one works and here's why it works for obesity berries. Here's why it might not work so good here, but these portions of it might. So we can start to, to pick and choose and understand where we might wanna go. And I, I think those are really, really in important and, you know, employee retention and getting that. That's definitely gonna be more of a marathon, I believe. However, if, if you start to show folks that you're really serious about changing out the vessels and looking for that good, consistent funding, you know, and then doing the things that are gonna make the system a trustworthy and, you know, and prideful again, then I think you, you will start to see that come back and then that, that can be addressed. But it, I don't want us to bite off too much at the start start making recommendations or talking about what to do when we have yet to even fully understand what the actual problem and challenges are.
Paul Johnsen - 3:40:34 PM
Yeah, I, I have a concern that as we schedule CIP federal projects, we're obligating to use that for the next five years. And, and that really slows down, right. Which is the presentation of the optimization plan gives us the opportunity too, to ask, you know, Cisco and captain valley, you know, Tony and Matt, if, if it was a perfect world and you really wanted to make this system succeed, would you do this C I project on this vessel? Right?
Keith Hillard - 3:41:12 PM
No, cause still a bandaid. It still of those 1960s, you're talking about the Matt NewCo and mainlander, I don't have no shift with new ship. You're gonna save money over the first 15 years.
Wanetta Ayers - 3:41:39 PM
To the point about governance, there has been a Senate bill introduc bill one 70 that would create the Alaska go union highway corporation. And I, you know, and it's, anybody's bet as to how much air are time. Any new legislation is going to get in this session, but at least, and, and it was introduced as a Senate transportation bill. So that bill does embody some legislative thinking. And I, I believe Southeast conference will have a proposal at some point as well. So there's, there's folks out there that, that have put some time into alternative governance models that we probably should hear from.
Shirley Marquardt - 3:42:37 PM
And, and that already just those three items, that's a pretty heavy list for, you know, four hour zoom meeting quite honestly.
Rob Carpenter - 3:42:45 PM
Well, that was my point core question was, seems like we need to prioritize what's most important and timing. When do you want accomplish X? You want to have short term plan out for the legislature, this session. Do you want to have some longer term, or you just want start having meetings and meetings until you understand something and then can come up with the plan? I mean, I, I don't know what we have. We wanna set goals and timelines or just have meetings until we all feel we can make a recommendation.
Shirley Marquardt - 3:43:21 PM
I hope not. I think that we can set goals and, and those were only my priority. Those to me are, are priorities to, to get to, to best understand more. I don't need to understand, you know, I, if the clock, so we just need to figure out how to tell, you know, what time that process, we don't have to know how every piece of that month works, but we need to make sure that that good clock that runs well. So we've gotta kind of stick with the, you know, the bigger, the 30,000 foot level and make sure we're not getting into micro management, which we've criticized so heavily before over the years from other entities doing. So if, if I could go to start around and ask, you know, norm what, what are the three most important things you feel you need to know next in order to, to get a good deal of, of where we should then go with a, a strategic long term,
Norm Carsen - 3:44:17 PM
I think, is this too detail? When I say vessels that fit the routes?
Shirley Marquardt - 3:44:23 PM
No, that works. I think that's gonna fall into the optimization.
Norm Carsen - 3:44:27 PM
Want to make sure that we have terminals that fit the vessels. I sure about thought, right?
Shirley Marquardt - 3:44:38 PM
No, that that's a huge priority. That's, you know, that's what they will be looking at and they have look there. So that's good captain hill.
Keith Hillard - 3:44:46 PM
I think the, the, the, the biggest piece of the puzzle is to be able to, to not have these dead pieces in the winter, and they we've adjusted the vessel seal eyes before where we keep more people working year round. So we don't create these staff shortages. I think that is in the short term, one of the biggest things we need to do, because we're gonna end up tying boats up, cause we don't have enough people to run 'em and that's not gonna do anything to restore the public trust. So I'll, I'll second. What norm said about, you know, the boats sitting, sitting when they need to go on the docks that work, but we need to get people work votes. And we, we need to, we need to figure out the, the, the most efficient way to, to be able to use these with the, with the money we have long term.
Keith Hillard - 3:45:35 PM
Second thing long term is, is, is the, I think is very much the harder picture because we don't really have an idea of where the system's gonna land. We're gonna be a corpor. We gonna be, where are we gonna be in VOT? So I kind of think, you know, a Alan mentioned that a little bit, you know, it's, you know, I'm in the same way, I'm, I'm looking at long term kind of figure out long term so we can work on short term. But unfortunately, I don't think we have that option until we know what the long term is. So somehow we're gonna have to come up with a, with a mixture of a, a mixture of both.
Shirley Marquardt - 3:46:14 PM
Do you feel that if you knew what the optimization or recapitalization plan for vessels and terminals was from NHS and D O T now, to be able to look at that and understand look, funding opportunities, both short and many longer term, would that start to get you there to the idea of where you'd be?
Keith Hillard - 3:46:38 PM
I mean, yes, all that's gonna help and what the public, you know, what the public thinks about it too. But I mean, if we're gonna end up switching to a corporation outside, are we gonna be able to, we're gonna be able to keep with those same project. So I think that's the hard, the hard part to, you know, it, it's kind of the, the question mark, you know, if we reformat, then that could open everything up all again. So,
Shirley Marquardt - 3:47:03 PM
So that would be the number three priorities governance, what types of governance? Yeah,
Keith Hillard - 3:47:08 PM
If you're, if you're looking at the legit, the longevity of the system, we need to know how we're gonna be governed. And that's probably the biggest que that should probably be number one is the biggest question is how are we gonna take this forward? If we're gonna, if, if we're gonna move to a corporation or a different thing, we gotta know that we have to
Alan Austerman - 3:47:36 PM
Well, and I think I said it right off the top. I, I think that I, I can't, I don't wanna reinvent the wheel. I don't wanna spend a lot of time writing a plan when most of the work has already been done based in part that I understand throughout the system, until that's presented to me as to all the work's been to done and try to consolidate it down into what we think ought, be an overall plan rather than
Alan Austerman - 3:48:05 PM
It's gonna be very difficult for me to move forward without knowing
Alan Austerman - 3:48:10 PM
Been done already. And Think that add that then would fall into, so the short rates plans will fall out of that. Pretty simple
Shirley Marquardt - 3:48:23 PM
Simple. I, so then are, are you interested then at the optimization or recapitalization plan presentation with vessels and terminals, the funding presentation with the infrastructure funding and possible state funding ideas, and then the governance presentation on the different to just kind of get a, our, we turn and get the information out there so we can use it, have a different,
Alan Austerman - 3:48:48 PM
If it's in form that I can understand and we can pull together, I mean, there's capitalization that your operations are or gonna have to all come together for the first to come up with a total plan.
Shirley Marquardt - 3:49:06 PM
Well, this cart's gonna have three horses at the same time. I think, I dunno, we get around it. And then eventually we'll start to move them a little bit. I think Paul, I guess my interest is mostly long term plant and getting funding or aggressive replacement. And then for a very long term, I think that our planning should include provisions for future future conversion to non fossil fuel. And you can build that in, if you're building a new ship, you could build in provisions to make it say amonia ready or something like that. I, I think that's important. One add, did we leave you
Wanetta Ayers - 3:50:04 PM
No button? I think, you know, there's, there's the problem. It's a complex system. And the challenge that we have is, you know, prioritizing amongst a whole laundry list of things that really everything needs to be done at once. But what I would say is that going back to system design, the place to start is at the end, because you don't know what to do do until you defined what success looks like. And so what I would say is I, I think simply establishing the overall systemic performance measures will be the goal posts, the, the guides that we need for, of these other decisions. So I, I really, honestly, from a strategic standpoint would start with a green on performance measures. And from there, I think fleet optimization and reconfiguration is, is probably the number one priority I would add strategic workforce development is, is the next thing. So those would be my three because I think workforce is going to be an already is a limiting factor for getting this system on step. So that's why I would make that my number three. Thank you,
David Arzt - 3:51:53 PM
Thank you. Yeah, I'd agree that the fleet utilization is, is critical to a target point here, but we still need to understand and make use of what the AMH the ferry system is doing right now toward those goals already. So we're not being overly wasteful because we have today and tomorrow to continue operating besides next year in the next five and 10 years. And I don't wanna see that get lost is just trying to understand where they're currently trying to get to and make use of that. So understanding their short term goals are important to me. Yeah, that's what I've got. Shirley,
Shirley Marquardt - 3:52:45 PM
Thank you, David captain F can I, can I put you, put you on the spot and ask you from you and your entire team from your perspective where you think with the job that we have to do and everything that we have to understand, and look, I, at order to make recommendations, just trying to, at this point, find a starting place for, for information that we need that allows us then to go forward and start saying, okay, here's some long term strategies or short term strategy now that we understand why things are the way they are. And now that we have a better understanding also of some other alternative ways that the system or the fleet could be optimized, would you have a list of priorities and they don't have to be your number 1, 2, 3, they can all be number one or two, but where you think the best place to start it?
John Falvey - 3:53:51 PM
Well, that's a, that's a loaded question, Charlie, but, but yeah, no, I, I, I think, I mean, I, you know, look at T ships are old. They, they are old, you know, you know, I sailed out in, you know, the outside marcher Marine for 35 years, 30 years, 35 years, long time, you know, 30 years is, is a life of an anchor. They're going up to that 25 to 30 years. Paul Johnson knows that we need new tonnage. We need some new ships. We gotta try to figure out a way to try to do that. We're at a great start with the, you know, you know, with, with, with, with the TRV, with TuiNa the, the replacement, I think it's great that we've got cabins going on the, on the Harbor. That's, that's, that's huge. That, that, that really is. I think, you know, I think, you know, you working with the board, I think we need to look at, you know, process, you know, how, you know, how do we really manage here?
John Falvey - 3:54:47 PM
You know, you know, is there a better way to do it? We got, we got Catherine here now she's got a great head for, for change staffs, you know, staffs behind that, you know, you know, those, those are the big things. And I think, you know, we've got the numbers and the facts and the figures, you know, and you know, that cause you you've been in here with us. And, and I, I, I think process, you know, I mean we have processes, but are they, you know, are they, are they the best way to be doing it? You know? And, and we've been doing it a certain way for a long in time, but maybe we gotta retool and, and, and, and try to do things differently. So, and I know that, you know, we're shorthanded, we're slowly gonna hopefully get those people back to get, to get back, you know, a little more robust staff, you know, on the shore side and on the ships. And I, I just think we, we need, you know, we need some new and, and, and, and that's probably where we need to drive.
Shirley Marquardt - 3:55:48 PM
Thank you, Cynthia. There you are. After on the corner. I'm sorry.
Cynthia Berns - 3:55:56 PM
I think I agree with a lot of others that have spoke, but looking at the short term plan, focusing on the long run goals and, and addressing the staffing shortages is, is going to be really important.
Rob Carpenter - 3:56:21 PM
Thank you kind want to, towards what said, and, you know, the, where do we wanna be? You know, what's, what's, what are the goal posts? That's kind of the vision, I think from an operational, you know, executive management, that's the struggle I have is I, I don't see a lot of need in the short term. We have Catherine on
Rob Carpenter - 3:56:51 PM
I, and she, like I said, she'll be in all these processes. He's working with me and Falvey and his crew to try and determine how can we read that? Some things, how can we re-look at some things, but it's that long-term vision and recapitalization of the fleet and where, where we want to be, and where we want to go. That is the real struggle that we can determine that vision and, then recommend a replacement cycle of the fleet. At some point, Kennicott's a great ship right now, but she's getting older herself and there needs to be a plan to replace. It's much older than her. So that, that's kind of the, what I feel like, like in my position need versus, you know, shorter-term stuff. O obviously that, I think that comes next, like, like a said, you work on that long term vision, then you can start working your way, you start broad, and then you start working your way down. But thanks.
Shirley Marquardt - 3:58:22 PM
So in, in terms of that, does, does the rest of the board feel that our next meeting should be another information gathering, meeting to dig deeper in and get some of that fleet information that we just talked about, those three priorities and start there the, to where we're gonna go with that kind of our long priorities and then start digging down into, gosh, so many others do that
Rob Carpenter - 3:58:52 PM
Person. We could also, Catherine could kind of compile thoughts and maybe could toss around some how, how we want the next agenda to be. We don't really need to solve it right now necessarily. And we could kind of formulate the plan for the next agenda. Does that seem reason?
Shirley Marquardt - 3:59:09 PM
Yes, that's what I was hoping we were
Wanetta Ayers - 3:59:25 PM
If I could do just jump in with the reshaping working group again, we were very time constrained and really were trying to grapple with many of the same issues, but maybe with a slightly different outcome. But the, the thing that really did work was meeting every weeks, at least for a period of time with shorter meetings, largely online, we did seems like we, I, I don't know everything is blurs day around here. It, I think we had face to face meetings, but maybe it was all in the middle of COVID and I'm losing my mind. But at any rate, I would suggest maybe some shorter, more frequent meetings to dig into the top three issues, whatever the consensus on those may be and just try and focus in those meetings and then come back with a meeting to synthesize in face to face what we've learned from those three meetings. That would be my suggestion.
Shirley Marquardt - 4:00:33 PM
Yes. I, I would agree. Would agree. Have we, yeah, I think it's recapitalization optimization, terminal funding in order to do that. Cause we keep it's all about the ships. We gotta start with the ships. We just have to start there and just understand that. And then we'll, then board can decide after that zoom meeting that we do, which gives us a chance to ask questions and figure things out, can decide what you want to have on the next meeting, the next agenda. If you're ready for an person to sit down and start digging, or if you want more information on something else, does that sound? Yep.
Wanetta Ayers - 4:01:19 PM
And I'm just gonna make one pitch, one additional pitch on, on goal setting or performance measure setting is that even if that's not the focus of the next few meetings, I would certainly volunteer and maybe there's one or two other board members maybe that would want to meet offline about issue with some resources, because I, I think it it's going to drive everything that we do or it should be driving everything that we do. So,
Shirley Marquardt - 4:01:54 PM
Yep. I guess my guess is that would be at the next meeting. The second meeting once we just get, meet some ator, just because it's, I it's not at first one doesn't mean that it's not a high priority again. So I don't know what the will of the board, if and Catherine, if you're suggesting that independent board members meet with staff and ask questions outside the process, not sure that that's the best idea.
Wanetta Ayers - 4:02:25 PM
Well, I mean, we, we have the ability to form task courses and what, what I'm suggesting is that maybe it, what I heard you say Shirley, was that it was vessels money and staffing, I think as the top three priorities, that that would be the, I took it. That that would be the priority of the next three meetings.
Shirley Marquardt - 4:02:50 PM
No, I'm sorry. That would be the priority of the next meeting to just have that information presented to us. So it means something more than just the word optimization plan so that we would understand what, what they're looking at. We're just seeing still need more information. So I think we're still in that that get gathering stage, but then the board after that would decide what, what you want on the next agenda. What you're, if you want something a little bit more on the same subject, or if you wanna go into a different subject at that time, all I'm suggesting is that we start biting taking, eating this elephant one little bite at a time.
Keith Hillard - 4:03:27 PM
We should not chairman, but I think should we schedule a zoom meeting for, for our couple of weeks so we can get some of this information in and then we can recommend, we can go from there about start building another agenda for another in person meeting. I think that's what everybody's kind of leading to, but we need to, we need to meet and come up with plan for another in person public meeting.
Alan Austerman - 4:03:53 PM
I just hope we follow follow that brought us here and concentrates on what legislation asked us to do. And the first step of that is your planning, whether short term or long term and your perform information is fall within that legislation as well. So it seems to me that I understand the financing. All, I can't tell you how much money I'm going for, unless I know much operational plan or your best plans or rest of this stuff. So it's where I'm again, I'm going back to the,
Keith Hillard - 4:04:30 PM
I'll make a, I'll make a motion that we set a date for another zoom meeting.
Wanetta Ayers - 4:04:47 PM
Friday, February 25th. And I would say from 8:00 AM to noon,
Shirley Marquardt - 4:04:57 PM
Can we check with staff here first because with legislation going on there, you know, I, I think we better check with Katherine and Rob and turn first and let them come up with maybe a couple of dates, a couple of options and send out those options yeah. To all of us and see, see which one rises to the top.
Rob Carpenter - 4:05:15 PM
That correct. Okay. But if I could intent, I think motion maybe is that we'd be well, not every two weeks, but as soon as frequent as possible, every two weeks kind of a cycle of every two weeks for a while, is that kind of the feeling of
Katherine Keith - 4:05:42 PM
And, and then just to summarize the work that we'll be doing in the background while preparing for, you know, these specific targeted every other week meeting will certainly be compiling the long term plan in the background. And when that's ready for review, we can add that to perhaps one of the three sessions, but we can certainly, that will take a little time to continue to four things together. So we can be working on that while we're having these topics under meeting. If that's acceptable,
Shirley Marquardt - 4:06:07 PM
It's gonna to fall together.
Keith Hillard - 4:06:13 PM
So we're, we're, we're, we're getting ready to adjourn the meeting; Katherine will email us and proposed dates of the next meeting and provides more information for, for, for that meeting. That's where we're, we're what we're prepping to do. Is that correct?
Shirley Marquardt - 4:06:38 PM
And I'm gonna consider that the form of a motion. Can I have a second, any objection, hearing none. The motion. Okay. It's board promise and then to adjourn, and I'm pretty much comment it out, but just briefly, I wanna say thank you very much for everybody coming here and just clearly you're here for the right reasons everybody is, and not really appreciative of that and appreciate AMHS being there, staff, and we'll definitely be hearing more from them. And thank you so much, Tara and Robin cap, and we'll set up a way we'll look for a way that maybe on the website that, that we, as board members can see the comments that people are writing into and choose if we want to respond to them. Is that what you were looking for?
Keith Hillard - 4:07:34 PM
I was just thinking it might be nice to have a, you know, email address as the board member, just to key all this stuff in one spot, just to keep it, I believe instead, I mean, I have my state of Alaska where everything comes in, but I was thinking, I was thinking, you know, it might be nice to just have, you know, one with, with, you know, ma AUB, you know, Alaska dot. So if the public has comment or doesn't like something you say or things can, and I did wanna mention that, sorry for babbling, but when you're taking these commentary for the public, are you gonna do like a, a frequency asked questions? So you're not feeling the same thing over you gonna like have a page like this question's already asked and responded to towards the, or that's
Alan Austerman - 4:08:23 PM
Under both comments closing. Yeah. Thank everybody. I appreciate all the help getting us here and understanding most of the stuff that I've got questions first off is if we wanna talk to anybody, staff ask questions. I mean, since I've been appointed, I've had 25 people call me asking me about what hell's going on with the, so I need to talk to somebody. They give me a latest update of what's going on with, so do I go directly to somebody or do you want me to go to staff or
Katherine Keith - 4:09:01 PM
Yeah, as, as the liaison onto the board, if you, you initiate your inquiry with me, I can certainly get it to the right person or put you in touch with somebody if you'd like to speak with them directly, but I'm happy to track down information and respond quickly and then follow up with what you need.
Alan Austerman - 4:09:16 PM
The other question is it would be nice to have a, that has us all listed on it with their phone numbers and email addresses everything. So we can communicate one to one basis as well. That's good. Thanks Kim. Thanks for everybody putting this together.
Rob Carpenter - 4:09:38 PM
Yeah. And I just can I real quick, thanks. You know, this is a Culmination, the beginning of a big process started last year and for that, with the working group, and this is an exciting next step. So thanks to everybody for again, volunteering, and looking forward to where we go. So appreciate that.
David Arzt - 4:10:08 PM
No. I just see Shirley that there's a lot of horsepower in that room. It's being remote at this time. A little hard to see all the information I've got in front of me here, but there's a lot, lot to do, and there's a lot that's been done and very impressed with staff and everybody that's volunteering their time here. Thank you.
Wanetta Ayers - 4:10:41 PM
Thanks, Shirley. Yeah. Thanks to the staff for putting the meeting together, the breadth of information and to the fellow board board members for the information and insights you're bringing into the process. I'm very encouraged having been part of the reshaping working group and dealing with some of these same questions, struggling with them. It's good to see this process launched in such a affirmative way. And I look forward to working with everybody. Thank you so much.
Cynthia Berns - 4:11:21 PM
Hi, there are a lot of information to digest, so I'm, I'm excited. I look forward to our next meeting and hopefully I'll, I'll have my voice back by then. So take care of everybody and look forward to seeing you again soon.
Katherine Keith - 4:11:45 PM
Much for tuning in, in this process and we'll send out more information online so you can understand how to dial in for the next meetings. In two weeks, they will be publicly made available. And also thanks to those that have made here for the whole day in person, greatly appreciated to have this support. Thank you.
Shirley Marquardt - 4:12:06 PM
Okay. Without further adieu.. We are adjourned.