October 14, 2022 8:30 AM - 4:00 PM
So Rob, me and Paul sat down, you know, we met with Cisco and Wayne and I never remember his name from Boston, Jim Wolf. And we're talking about the Matt Newsco and the, the biggest thing that struck me in there about communication was I've asked repeatedly for the last two years about what their plans were for the, how their planning to remodel it. You know, what these plans were. Cisco and Wayne both told us at this last meeting, but those plans are 100% done, submitted the Coast Guard and they were never given to this ship for review. They, they never asked us for any, any opinions. So we've got crew that's living on the cabin deck now that would be, if they're in the same spots, would be taken up handicap rooms. I, I, I'm just concerned about this process that it was
Submitted back to DC and and sector without giving the permanent people on on the boat any chance of commenting. And I've got the emails that I can show you if you want, where I've asked for these in, in previous years and was told that there isn't any. So that's a hard one for me to swallow on the, on the communication side as a captain, just because there was some very specific things that I wanted to see in this, in this remodel that, that are not being addressed at all. So like one I wanted the first a, I wanted the first aid room actually part of the purser's counter area, so they're not having to leave their area to go across the hall to manage a patient. That was one which should be, it's not that hard I don't think to accommodate that. It's just that they never asked valid point. I think we're trying to improve the communications. I think on trv we put that out to all the ship captains to say, you know, design was an original design, so you guys pass it around. So we should do that more of our projects. I don't know the history of this one as much as far as why it hasn't been around. For example, Captains Bobby's online. I'd be curious what he had to say about it if he still with it.
Yes, Captain, the, you know, Rob, I'm not quite sure of the down into the weeds details with those drawings and you know, how they were reviewed. What I do know is Captain Hilliard and I did meet in my office before I went on vacation and I did indicate that, you know, if this is the way we go forward that I don't see why we can't, we still don't have time to try to make adjustments to that cabin deck. And I did have that discussion with him before I left.
Yeah. And, and I think that can be done, you know, as I say, backtrack and as to, you know, what engineering did or didn't do down in the weeds of the actual cabin deck layout. I, I'm just not sure, but you know, if there's something that, you know, the captain on the crew would like to see change, I, I, I don't then I've, I've had some preliminary discussions with Cisco about it. I I think we probably can fix that, that's not too late for that and get some sort of a re-approval.
Yeah, because we're looking at some minor adjustments now on the, on the Hubbard with the cabins, you know, that's all been done and approved and we have the ability to make some minor adjustments due to some things that staff want changed around with Linen Lockers and Kevin Hill. I think that can be done and yeah. Yeah.
Captain Poly, this is surely my understanding of this. That's primarily due to the discussion with Coast Guard in years past, early on on this was that there was no plan to replace the matanuska yet. Now we do have a plan to replace the atka without I IGA money in the next five to seven years, hopefully sooner than that. So is is that as much of a game changer that it feels like to some of us
It could be Shirley? Yeah, it, it, it could be. It's just that we don't have a guaranteed date that we can lay out there for the Coast Guard saying we will have this new mainlander here, so let's talk about how we can get there and keep you Coast Guard folks happy with debt and corridors and major conversion and and and those type things. Yeah, yeah, correct
Yep. Thanks for the question. Part of my team's deliverable will be a meeting report for the portion of your meeting that we facilitated, which is the majority of it will work with the team on the actual minutes and any of that administrative stuff that y'all are used to seeing. So you will have a report with all of this content and all the other discussion that happened today that we forward to you as our deliverables.
Good. Yeah, and of course if we were gonna keep going with this, we would wanna wordsmith and do all kinds of fun stuff, but it's just gonna be as is. It's up to you what you wanna do with it. Anything else on the short term? I think we could probably pivot into a dozen topics that I documented. I don't know if they're resolved or
Okay. Without objection. We are moved out of the work session and are back into the regular session of the AM hub manager. Yep. I moved that we adopt the framework discussed in our work session today as our working framework for a long range plan and to inform a short term plan as our draft. As our draft. Okay. Motion on the table has been that the board wishes to adopt this draft framework as a working document as we move forward. All in favor say aye. Aye. Aye. I propose No norm. Come on. Norm say no. Did you hear the motion? I did hear the question. Aye. Thank you. Okay, motion passes unanimously. You have a draft framework.
Just real quick. You know that's, we've talked about that a lot. It's like, let's say like Connie goes back, what do we do? Not la Connie, I'm sorry let's say we don't have to crew on the client is it would, would we say okay we're tying up Laura and one crew down to run economy cuz we deem that more important. That's a really hard sure like almost impossible thing to answer. We can't, to prioritize like that is so difficult. And also the union contracts are that are so complicated different that it's almost, it's really you have to get an way to move people from Aurora. I've gotten and there's different benefit packages and a days versus nine days. It's really complex and we keep going through, you know what I've asked that question, what's the contingency plan? And it really comes down to, we don't know, we can't tie up another vessel to make one run.
We just have to tie that vessel up and usually Connie can't run, she just can't rob move people from somewhere else and, but now we're heading into winter where we got ships in the yard and it's like provides us quite a bit of relief to where we can move people around moving up. But, but, and in the summertime it's like, you know, we had a couple things where on the mat I was seriously shorter people, like one more person would've gotten covid and we would've had a tie up. Like we, I did absolutely everything I could to keep that boat running and that's what I believe happened with Connie. Someone got sick or family members got injured or something and you know, they had to go. So when you, you're talking literally short one person. So, and all the vessels are so tight that you can't, I mean how do you start bouncing, you know, pulling one person off a one to try to yeahs on the situation.
I mean if it's Captain Hiller, I mean if that's one chips, one person short, we're not gonna, we don't want to pull the entire crew off to go run something else. And depends on what ship is short too and how long that time can be. But we'd have to look at maybe with regular, with Deb dispatch and scheduler and okay, you know, on this ship for that ship what are we gonna try to do to cover it or what we need to do. But I mean they've is work fors this the last few months. I mean there's been times we are down to hours and they find somebody to get out on the ship. You've got a lot of, lot of new hires out right up the bat, putting them to where yeah, they would also take account some ships required. Yeah, I guess Tcw don't, so you know, yeah they have to look at who has licenses to go. But that's definitely just something we discuss I would say daily or several times a week it comes up, you know, going through that and
Yeah. And I, I think I wanna be clear, I it sounds like I think I was asking you to provide a plan for it. I was not. What I'm hoping to do is have this discussion to find out how do you look at this when, you know when these issues are coming. We know some are coming up in the future, you know, what is the matrix you put these options through, whether it's a union issue, whether it's, you know, shipped ship, what, whatever it is so that we just understand what it is that you're looking at and then we'll stay outta your chilling. But we just need to understand how the chili, you know, what, what may or may not go into the chili and, and that's it. I don't, I don't want the chili recipe right now. So
Thank you, Norm. It is listed in the short term plan, but it doesn't have a dollar amount or a time and, and I think it's listed as pending, so I'm, I'm not sure where that is. I believe it's in the step, but I something we can talk about two weeks from now. But I, I, I think, I don't know. Thank you. Well, it'll be on, Yeah, it'll be up. It'll be on the list for discussion at our next meeting, Norm.
You're prioritizing and I just, it's been a real joy, everyone, and I wanna thank board members for making time for me on set short notice so that I could hear from you and help put this agenda together. You guys did good work. Good. There's a lot of wisdom on this group and so keep it up. And yeah, thanks to Kim. Kim is a, an important piece of my puzzle, so I wanna give her some credit. Also wanna give kudos to d o T for the support team. It's a pretty incredible undertaking for one of these meetings to come together, particularly with the hybrid approach. And I know you've been doing Zoom, but it, it's a whole other level of complexity. So nice event. Welcome Joanne. Good luck to you and I'll be watching
You go. Okay. All right, thank you. Yep. So to, to close things out, we usually go around the other room. Got a couple of minutes to do that. I'll just real briefly, Joan, it was really nice to meet you. It's really good to have you on board and I know that we'll be working with you as, as closely and I'm looking forward to doing that. You clearly have a strong background and, and so that's, I I'm really grateful for that. Matt, thank you for flying up from can and being part of the discussion and hearing what's, you know, what's important to us and where we're still, you know, looking for information that, that's very, very helpful to us. Captain Fy, thank you very much for spending the day with us online. Again, please get better soon and the best to your wife as well. Take care of yourself. Thanks
Anyone opposed to service level? We're still in the beginning. You don't like this player? Don't give option that. All right, cool. Yay. Usually I make you guys clap, but you know, don't, All right, let's keep doing it. You're like running with it. So here's what I wanna offer. Who knows? Yeah. Yeah. Juan Juana has joined the party and I bet she, it sounds like she's nodding, She knows where we're at. So we did a deal, we threw the spaghetti up. Now we're sorting it out and we're naming what it means with Yeah, you have a marker and front in front of you. And this is the workshop question. Okay. Okay. What elements of five year plans should be, should it be consider its recommendation. So I'm extracting more cards. I forgot the total. Yeah, ready? It's a lovely snowflake, I think, by the way, Kim is an amazing artist, but when you started calling the Snowflake one, we'll follow up the Snowflake one. Let's get this a better name. All right. What new writers is I incentive been initialized for Growth Market. Has our ridership changed over time? We been little bears. Do we utilize social media to encourage ridership for specific failing? So what words comes to mind? Customer satisfactory.
Well, and I was thinking that not only for, for you know, increasing, you know, outside ridership, but within our own small communities, you know, we're in a small village and nobody knows the ferry's coming or we don't give an advanced notice. You know, like the idea of having two year a schedule for two years out, if people know it's coming and they're notified and we have outreach in these smaller communities will increase the ridership.
I think the, the snowflake cause not derogatory, the snowflake is, is this is about addressing system satisfaction? Are we servicing the point system satisfaction. Okay. But like the norms, the social media and sales and marketing more go together for, I would say more communication and more about like runs that are coming up that's more futuristic. Where this is previous path. You know, you're asking are we satisfied in the public? Are we getting, are the communities getting the service level they need? You know,
So if if these stayed here with stuff that's not, is there stuff that wouldn't get detention or is this all the thing, you know, I think that's the question. Yeah. I kind of feel there are reasonable fairs and the social media among marketing and we're left at, to me now is route analysis.
All welcome everyone for those in the room. I talked delicious food happening, so thank you for that. And for those online, just wanted to make an announcement that we do scheduled public comments at three 15. And so we're gonna do our best to stick to that. If that's something you're planning on doing, you need to make sure that we've got some wrap up time between. So we'll see how that goes. And Sam has let me know if he gets a worry of folks that wanna do public comments that will adjust accordingly so we can make sure that happens. Okay, So for those of you that are board members around the table, I guess in order of business, I'm not sure we totally closed the loop on is if you haven't passed these, if you're ready to pass these to our team, we are collecting these.
If you're not ready, hopefully you'll be ready at some point today or in the future, but we'll take these from you when you're ready. So those are the board matrix who's already gotten one from Captain Page, and I know Norm is working on his. Alright, you ready for the good stuff? Time. So everyone in front of them has some, these are half sheets, and behind me is a sticky wall. So if you've never done a sticky wall before, it's super cool. So we're gonna do three to five words when you answer your question and you're gonna try and write big like this.
I know. So everyone breaks the, but I try and try, if we can't have little, the whole idea is the sticky wall. Oh, look, how good is that? So you can see online what we're doing. And here's our workshop question. We talked a little bit about how we could ask a different question earlier if we wanted a different outcome. But our goal today, the plan today is to agree on some framework that can, we forwarded by, by way of recommendation to the d OT as they move forward with their planning process. But that doesn't mean that you can't do something like this to start looking internally and, and do another planning process. And actually you will. But the goal here is, is recommendation. So here is the, the workshop question. I how here can me, where I'm, Can you hear me where I'm at? How's this going for you?
Can you hear me? Yes, I can. Thank you. Well downhill from here. I should seen me last week I was carrying this big handle microphone around. So I am in heaven, trustee. All right, here's your workshop question. What elements of a five year plan for the AMHS could the AM consider in its recommendations to do? And everyone knows what all those acronyms are. I know you put 'em up there. Yeah. So what element of a five year plan for the AMH should the am considering its recommendations? This is three to five words. So here's the deal. You've got a stack of cards in front of you. Just first of all, I just wanna acknowledge that the imposter syndrome that I heard earlier, I have a little bit of it too. You are an amazing group. This is a high powered group and you belong in this room.
You are, you are the right people at this table. So do a little brainstorming if you don't wanna write on the card yet. I know Shirley, I know you guys have started, you've had some bit and with different documents been floating around, get, this is the spaghetti on the wall. So we're just gonna get the juices flowing. So do a little brainstorming on your own norm. I think you've got a surrogate who will drive and create your card. And so I'm just gonna take a few minutes for you to think on your own. And then when we're done with that, I'm gonna ask everybody to pick favorite. And that's how the start. But don't worry, we'll keep adding to it. So brainstorm, let know, that's gonna be quiet and I'm here.
Get one, do as many as you want, but we're start by passing one up that you like if you only can, right all down. And then what we're gonna waste some paper today, I'll gonna do this and then we're gonna come back to what's on paper, how it matches. I'm sorry. So the norm, if you, if you wanna put some answers in the zoom chat, Jolynn is ready, subscribe for you and she can take it from there. She's kind of loosen her voice. That's why she asked me to say that. So, So you see the workshop question norm? And does that make sense? If you could kind of put your ideas in the chat or you could just write 'em down and here think you might be muted. Let us know if you have question. I think I see you talking, but I also think I see her on mute, but I'm also a little blind, so
Okay. I know, I know about that. So just let us know if you can, if you need our help, walk up and put up there. Please do not approach the wall. So, so make your, make your stack and then we'll pass your, I'll put it on the wall and then we'll do another round. We'll talk, we'll do another round. But thank you for asking if, Oh, there's, somebody says that's enough. All right, well, very well, don't worry, this is just the beginning, but I'm sensing I sir. Norm, I don't know if you've given us any, but Jocelyn's ready to write a few parts for you. If you wanna put this in the chat.
So finding down on this first little round here, go ahead and pick your favorite. If you could only pick one, what would it be? When you're ready, just hold it up. Kim will come around and get it from you or I will. Yeah. Or what you think is like the biggest half to have just one with one? Yeah. Oh, when I thank you. Six. I'll fill, Oh, I know. Come in and all wall, but we wanna get, get her as well. All right. So do we have one for Norm? Or you put one in the Jack? Yay. Norm, this isn't easy to do virtually. And I wanna thank you for being a for,
Yeah, that happens to me too. Okay, I bet you'll be back soon. All right, let's see what you came up with. Do our both sit our route. Modern efficient fleet. There we go. Service level. Safety. Safety, safety. Exclamation plan. Free new shifts in process free replacement vessels in process. Right? In process. In process. You just put I was trying to, All right, you're cheating. Questions about any of your fellow board members cards? Are these clear what we mean? So makes safe say, is that a recommended goal or what does that, how does that help in process this owner? That everything falls under the element of safety. Safety's always. Okay. That's, so that's the element every decision that the guided vision or Yeah. Cool. And we might end up with all kinds of different ideas on the board it out. We'll get it argument. Any other questions? Bear on what these mean. Huh?
We're doing? Yes. Yeah. So we're still just brainstorming. We're taking the temperature, what's on top of mind. And the reason I made you pick one is because I have a real estate problem up here. We already got a couple that are same, right? And so if you have a question about one of these and we've moved on, come back to it, that happened. So let's go ahead and take a a, Yeah,
Cool. Let's see what else you guys have in front of you. And then we'll start doing some, get this organized. So that's kinda next. So second favorite or second half. And, and if it's not, if it's not already up there, I Right. I'll let you guys work on that. I'll keep that going. Cool. All right. Reliable service to all communities. Serve address, staffing, shortages, size and ability, forecasted growth, demand search, dedicated operational funding. Do we have one from Norm? I'm not sure. Questions about the new round? Are these clear? I, You guys are clear? Oh yeah.
All right. We'll come back to questions. Do you have cards inside of you that are not currently reflected in another card on the wall? How many do people have? I have five. But those are already on the wall. Yeah. Okay. You've got six. How about why don't we pass up any that aren't on the wall goes? Yeah, no, this is one that's over here on the wall. If it's not, not on. Yeah, you got it. All right. Let's see how, how we do here. All not on the wall. Yeah. Okay, we got it. We got's. Got some two more. All right, cool.
We can deal with not too much full staffing and catch a, Do we do the marker here? All right, that's good. Alaska class varies in operation approved long term plan, that succession plan, instate recruiting, sales and marketing. Essential minimum service, Reasonable fair, all s**t in aberration during summer. Scheduled maintenance ii. JA. Funding for new vessel construction management and governance structure for a long term maintenance and vessel upgrade and replacement plan. Vessel maintenance. I am going point well that was a big round S on the ones that just set up on the wall. I hear a marker. I hear a virtual marker. Cool. And then you know, Kim's got a picture this, this might, once we get that one up there, this might be a good screenshot of posts for people online hybrid meeting. We're getting better at it, but, all right, well I'm not hearing a lot of questions. So it sounds like you all know what these things are. Couple more. Has our ridership changed for port over time? What new incentives have been initialized? Okay, since you go to the next phase here. So my next question is what goes together And it's helpful for me if you told me the colors and then the word otherwise what goes together? Muscle maintenance and puzzle maintenance. Vessel maintenance. Scheduled maintenance. That what you, Yeah.
Alright, we've got ridership, incentive market sales and market sales and marketing. Seeing nodding in the room. I think these are norms. So Norm, I don't know how you're doing with all this. Look, I seen this. That's funny. So we've got your ridership, you gave us two who ridership one. And I'm gonna stick them over by sales and marketing and reasonable fair and forecast gross demand. You cool with that? Yep, that's fine. All right. Basically there's only, there's only six, six different fabrics up there. Anything missing? Magical card. Just make it up. Crush all. So we've got, wow, that one with, that one's got six, That one's got. Alright, just gimme a moment. I'm gonna put these in order. I guess the smallest. And if you, if you see something up here and you're like, that doesn't go there, tell me, let's talk about it. So you wanna help? No, I got here a,
Or I know that's a panic. All right, so I mean, we do this cause it's important that we agree on like what these mean to us, right? And so if we don't agree on the words that we use to describe each of these, then we start just calling it something and then that sticks. And why not really see what you wanna call it. So let's just do this first. I'm gonna walk through each of these and then we're gonna talk about what words we get to describe them. So the first one, fleet size and ability. Alaska class varies. And operations. You are both fit or Route II J funding for new vessel construction. Three new ships in process honor and efficiency, and three replacement vessel. So when you hear all of that, what words come to mind to describe this? If we were to say, what is this, what is, I call these buckets right now, right? There's buckets, severe id, weight modernization, fleet modernization. Yep. Yeah. Yes. Wow. Guys are easy. All right. Kim. Kim didn't expect that to happen. So did you just say, Well, yeah. All right, what you got?
Are these price performance measures we've talked about in the past? A performance measure. It measures the success of the system and providing the services. The only thing that doesn't fit now, in looking at it as performance measure, dedicated operational funding. I think that, I'm not sure where that needs to be.
Is feedback going on here? You guys have all you think that, So I'm operational here. And then Shirley is offering sustainable biannual operations funding. We're gonna stick these two over here. Then let's come back to this. I, we, a couple of ideas about what these meant to us. Somebody said service levels.
One of the concerns that some of us had anyway on original discussion about what this five year plan was gonna put together was, are we taking, is the OT only using the current ridership current dollar value income? And are they projecting it forward to what growth could be in five years to make sure that we're, we're not just putting four ships on, but we're planning to have six because the growth of of the system would naturally come after a pandemic, after all of the rest of this stuff, even on the internet up. So I don't know whether that falls all within sales and marketing, but it is a concern that, that we plan that future aspect of
Yeah, can And and I I just say that that has been a concern that it's shared by communities and ridership and, and the, the reshaping working group is that forecasted growth demands are always based on historical trends. And, and at least in the recent, most recent five years, maybe seven ridership has gone down because service capacity was down, reliability was down. And it's hard to optimize a system coming out of, you know, that, that circumstance. So, so can
So if I put the words based on modernized fleet on this card that help make sure that, that, I actually wanna ask you, this is before I start. This is your card. Are you good with that? More than five words. The rules? Really? Well you should have seen doctor's name. I have not old followers. Okay, so the words are based on modernized speech
Since you don't like me call it snowflake, what if we just called it sales and marketing? And maybe that's the title. Because scheduling is driven by what we can sell and what we can do and what the needs are. So all that stuff down there, everything that's below that is gonna dictate what we need.
Well, you know, the, I mean, I guess what I would say is that it's, I'm gonna go back to the term that I was using customer centric service is that you are, you're providing routes, you're providing sailing and the level of service and frequency that customers demand. Customers include Alaskan and tourism. Tourism. And so those are, those are in my mind completely different animals. And so when I say customer centric, it's all who are our customers? What do they want? And are we needing it?
And so really when you're talking about a five year plan, what is your, what are you thinking about in the five year plan? Are you thinking about growth? Are you thinking about decline? What is your five year plan? So if you don't figure out some kind of growth pattern in it, then you're really losing everything anyway. If your ferry system is not gonna grow from what it currently is and what it's got. So again, it all ties back to having a modern fleet brings in good employees. It increases growth, it increases community service. It so we sales and while sales and marketing is very, very important, I think it's something we really want to take a hard look at because I'm not sure that changes that have taken both over time haven't actually decreased ridership. So it's something that we need to have a hard look at. And it ties to the growth, you know, if they've got a good marketing and good sales team going on, if they've got a modern fleet, they can increase the growth. So
I think. I think cause sales and what you can do drives growth. It drives what you need. It drives what people want. And that's why I do, when you have your hand there, some kind of contracted outside custom service. Okay. To make sure that we're, you have the pulse of the community is what they want, what they need.
No, that has to do. Talking about that with the, the easier at beginning. It's, it's does small communities like, you know, you're providing service that's not designed. You're providing service to things that are never gonna make money or never generate money. It's just cuz you're doing it for the community service. So it's like if we're gonna provide services, they're gonna be enough. You know, if you, if you're like, say you're providing service to some of the smaller outputs, you know, they say they want twice month service and then they're not feeling it up. Do do we take it away? It's like how do we manage, I don't know. That's what I was thinking with that. Managing service levels.
Hand your card over? Sure. I mean like we, like Ellen talks about that. It's like if there's one vessel a week going to Kodiak and you know, two of those, two of those trips out of the four a month only have three cars on it. So you keep running that or do you try to find the code to go somewhere else to do things? So maybe that's
What what I, what I wanna say, what I wanna say about that is I don't think the system should run unsustainable runs over and over and over again. But I think that we have an obligation for what the funding of the system and certainly the new vessel funding is about connecting coastal Alaskans in unrooted communities to the internet interstate highway system. Oh, you don't wanna rip it up. What? Like a balance. There's gonna be, there needs to be a balance, there needs to be a balanced viewpoint of that, that recognizes that we are going to have economically unsustainable routes with low ridership because our overall mission is connecting Alaskan to the internet or interstate. I So we're gonna
Can I ask a question up Matt again, Back to the business manager for the system. You know, there definitely some communities that some of that the, that looks like the 2 25 move between and the ridership is not always large numbers there, but is there, I mean, why, why is that done? What what is that business? Well,
Button. Oh, the panic button, okay. Or, or the staples. This is easy. The easy, the easy button That's better than the, it seems like those are sustainable operations issues to me. The, the, the planning piece is, is a, is a long range planning is is maybe under the, and safety vessel, maintenance scheduled maintenance, Those things are, are sustainable operations
What I'm thinking on that is because I, I I think in a long range plan that we really need to look at improving the management and governance structure of the system because there are folks who should have authority to make decisions on behalf of the highway marine system that fall within the plan without getting stuck in having to go to different, different routes or, or I mean, I think clearly the management and governance structure of the AMHS has been a disaster for decades.
Can we just leave it as the language required of us. I mean if, if we're looking at as a strategic, I, I think the maintenance that replacement plan. Yeah. Can we say strategic long term strategic plan and subordinate operational plan. So we're talking specifically about social maintenance. I
This phone, You know, I I I'm not gonna split hairs over, It doesn't bother me where it goes. Honestly. I just felt like it belonged with the operational funding side, but it, it definitely well could stand alone. Okay. Think we can tape remove the approved long, long term plan.
Yeah, I don't agree with that. Cause there's a, this balance, there's a, I take this structure, there's a revenue decision, you know, reasonable fairs, whatever that means, you know, there's a service level it ties into. Then there's a, what portion of it is state supported or legislative supported utf. So it's this structure balance of, you know, how much, how much revenue you wanna raise, what service wanna provide and what, what's left. So to me it's not just sustainable operational funding, it's the balance of all that.
Well, I mean, you know, let's, let's remember that it wasn't too long ago that the deal that was struck to keep the op, to keep, keep the system operating was that it was gonna get 50% of its money from operations. Yeah. We've never, ever, ever done that. So that is a very high benchmark. But that was at least one perception of, I don't know, I don't know what, I don't know how to characterize it, you know, but
Recommend. Right, Right. But I, I mean, I'll just tell you, a lot of people have taken a swing at that over the years. And the reality is a lot, lot of people, a lot, a lot of good thinking has gone into it. And the, the reality of, I think each one of those exercises, if you could find modest ways to generate modest income, but that it's not going to, it's not going to rise to the level of significant contributions towards the operations.
So this, I just wanna congratulate you all and a job well done. You were an easy group to facilitate. You're aligned in a lot of ways, but you also rooted out a few things that you're not aligned on. And I think those are good things to continue to unpack. We, when we come back, I'm gonna say 20 after with serious clarity two 20. So that gives us, when we come back less than an hour before the published public comment. So let's talk about process when we come back. Also wanna come back to some of the funding questions that I, I didn't let us get sidetracked on and see how far we get. I've got wrap up for 30 minutes at the end if you wanted to have Shirley, you know, take the gavel and put some action items on the table. Yeah, you should do that. So, cool. Nicely done everybody. We'll come back at 20 after and have a good break. Okay.
Right? Welcome back Norm and other members of the public were reconvening here and would like to have a conversation about next steps now that we just went through this big activity. We've got all this content that's super drafty up on the wall and so I, I think surely what are you thinking in terms of next steps with the work that we just did?
Thank you. I, I think in terms of how we've been working as a board, we generally take what we've done at the end of one meeting and and try to bring it forward to the next meeting to either clarify or flush it out a little more or, or see where it connects with another element. So in, in my eyes, taking these, you know, the very top level signs really at this point. And you can either at the end of the meeting come in and make a motion to adopt these as draft elements of long range plan according to am ho and draft of course leaves plenty of room for changes and, and and growth in these. And I think the next step then would be to sit down with the short term plan and maybe with the white paper that we have the modernization plan from Amhs back from February.
We don't have an updated version of that. It's, it's in here somewhere, but it's very, very hard for me to follow. But it would be very helpful to sit down now and, and with this is the umbrella look to D O T D O T, what do you have planned for the short term? How do you think this fits in here, etcetera? So we can hear it. So we can understand it and we can make recommendations of either we agree that this is a good path to follow from short term or the recommendation might be we think that you need to look harder at this element or sooner what whatever it may be comes in the next meeting. And I'm glad that Joanna's on board and would encourage and hope that she would be part of that next meeting as well. And, and go from there and start, start flushing it out. It would also be helpful to have a timeline. We talked about that and maybe Jen can help us with that of when we need recommendations, when we're gonna see a, a draft budget for amhs at next year from A D O T that we could look at and you know, make recommendations or, or just simply approve it's their budget on ours and, and just start down, start down that path. Now that we have this an umbrella subject to change.
Okay. Yes. So we would need that. Is that, Joan, are we tracking with you? Those are the two requirements for short term plan? Correct. Is the reporting out of the findings based on the questionnaire you guys about in your self analysis item number two and the short term plan? Yep. Okay. And actually the modernization plan white paper that you talked about, I think has been crafted into the first draft and the short term plan, right, happens provided to me that I've already reviewed and look at just based on the content and the standard planning, practicing how we do our plans in D O T. So I've already started working and, and we've seen that. We haven't discussed it yet. We haven't had the opportunity. We got the plan a day before a board meeting and we're asked to support it and we haven't even read it. And I keep coming back to the white paper, it's just five pages of basically assumptions. If you do A either B or C will happen. If C happens, you're going to do need to do D or e. It was very, very helpful to look at things that way and it also had financial implications just on a page to watch. You know, so putting that together through with this, with with charts and graphs and little numbers and lines, numbers has been a challenge. So if we can use both of those, that would be good.
HPA 63, Well it lays out all this stuff doesn't give us a timeline. It says this is what you shall do. So if we're not ready by this budget time, we're not ready by this budget time. I don't wanna be forced into saying broker stamp this, this and this because we're out of time when we don't really know. So because there's no timelines forcing us into doing this. And I, I'm a little bit wanna be make sure that we know what we're doing.
But would it be fair to say that we wanna have at some point during the next legislative session have some conversation with the legislature about where we are before the end of the next session and, and some timeframe and their deadline for submitting new legislation is generally 30 days before the end of the legislative session. So, and, and, and that's, I mean honestly, 30 days in from the start of the legislative session, you probably should have something to that because if you want some, if you want them to do something with it in the confines of the next legislative session, they probably need 30 days to get to the 30 day deadline. So 30 to 60 days from the start of, of the second Jan Tuesday in January and aha, we might not have hard date timelines, but ADT does. Yeah. And we need to be able to review and, and, and make recommendations in a timely manner for them. So they're gonna present with or without,
If, if, if we're talking about the short term plan, which is what we're talking about, them presenting it to the legislature, what we're looking at is probably, you know, the next two years of operations being out two years. I would think that that would be, should maybe be a priority then of our next meeting is to go over what their, what are they planning to present for the next two years. What if that short term plan just the next two years looks like, because would would that give us enough, Alan, do you think to, to sit there and say, you know, we can get behind this two year plan or you know, where we can, you know, pick it apart? Well we're only gonna make recommendations to what they come up with. So if for example, the operational fund, if they bring forward, we're gonna use these several dollars to operate for the next two years, then I'm gonna have real hard burden of saying, yeah, okay, we reviewed it and let it go too. Yeah, no, no. That's when we redraft it and say no we want them to do it this way. Write a recommendation back. Yeah. Correct. Correct. I believe we should make input on everything we that's brought up should be shy about. So basically giving our opinion basically whatever two year plan they're presenting, we're reviewing and we're either scratching it or agreeing with it or, So
20. Okay. Well it would be, I mean it would be good to see what the, the, those, those are and what, what priorities have been placed on them. I mean as far as the board is concerned, I mean I think our next step, I guess what I would like to see is a prioritization of these columns and then a deep dive in on just that topic for a meeting and honestly that that could take us well into the next legislative session. But fleet modernization in my mind is the most important thing because it's the pivot point upon which all these other things rest.
So we've got just over 30 minutes and I think what I'd like to do is round robin of board members to hear like top of my likes the best use of our limited times for the rest of today and see, see where we land there. So I'm gonna start with Shirley again. I'm gonna come over here and I'm just gonna make a list. Okay, so what does success look like when we meet here at four o'clock today a week?
We haven't killed each other. You know, I think it's been a successful discussion. It's, it's been really helpful and I keep coming back to what the, the question was what are the elements, the five year plan for the amhs should a d t consider in their planning process? So I think we really need to focus on, on, on those elements and, and I think we did well if there was time, and I don't think there is, but, but maybe looking at elements of the short term plan and realizing that some of them are already underway and are going to stay underway because they are, you know, their, their time impediments. That doesn't really give time for us to, you know, two months down the road say, you know what, that really was a good idea. We get it now, go ahead and do it. Well, you know, we kind of lost out cuz we weren't ready
That yeah, that and the, my, my second note I'd have next steps is a discussion of from schedulers and the business manager kco and, and Captain fia. I guess what's plan B, C and B if we can't staff vessels, What kind of matrix are you putting for through the prioritizing vessels or routes if you have to type a ship? I mean, if we can't man shift, we can't man shift. If you tie up a shift and end up with 30 folks, now you can run this vessel and this vessel and it'd be very, very helpful for us to go through that discussion and, and understand what the options that you've looked looked at and, and what kind of matrix you're putting, putting through. Because it's probably gonna, it's already happening and it's very difficult for us to board members to be able to say, well we don't have any idea what's gonna happen and, and we also need to get comfortable with up ships if we don't have enough people. That's the reality. That's the reality what we do next. Why I think that's really important
For today, for the rest of the day. Honestly, I, I don't know. I think that we've, we've gone through these pretty well. Some of them to me are a little redundant underneath, but I know that that's gonna come in the short term, the short term planning. Maybe for a little bit of time today, if we could go through what some board members might have something that's really, you know, low hanging fruit that they think they would like more clarification or understanding of before we sit down with the short term
But okay, we're back. We are fully supportive of that. So I don't know if you're following, I've got two, two lists go in here. One is next steps in general and what we have on there is work on the short term plan with like a plan B, C, and D on staffing shortage, contingency planning there, also working the cot on some potential recommendations on the operating capital budget. And then line items of duties and work products of the board and working with PT on timeline. That's what we've got on next steps. And then we've got not too much time left before public comment and then hopefully about 30 minutes after. So for today, there's a wish that we can prioritize the columns that we just did here on the wall, potentially go into session and vote on this work today as a draft, set up the next meeting and then it sounds like there's some q and a that some members have in the room as well. So the question is, any request for today and any requests on this next steps that I haven't mentioned?
You're a champ Norm. Always love a meatloaf reference norm. All right, well I guess, can I maybe talk about different ways that we've prioritized at this stage in the process? You've all done the sticker method, that's the easiest thing. I don't think we brought any stickers, didn't we? No. So we weren't, we didn't, we don't have stickers but we could do a deal like if you wanna Yeah, we could give you posts and you guys could say what, what do you want? I think number, I
But it might save us a little time. I, that is kind why you do it that way. So are you guys, let me just clarify that you all would like to prioritize, I'm gonna call in buckets like usually what happens is these turn into priority areas or focus areas or goals that usually were Smith but like we're not there yet, right? These are just, I'm gonna call 'em priorities just cuz that's easy. Four buckets but you wanna prioritize these against each other. Am I hearing that right? Yes. You want 'em in order of priority. Okay. Is that necessary for D O t? I just wanna make sure clear to have it prioritized.
We just want 'em all, I mean we want 'em all incorporated, right? Yeah, I guess I'm gonna throw a little caution just because it's all important and I just wanna make sure and you've got a little bit of this right? So like they all relate to one another. I would say most of the time it groups go out of their way to not prioritize for that reason. But I also think you're doing something different. You're making recommendations to B ot. So you know, maybe you all just say here's what I think the top priority is and you're not necessarily deprioritizing the other things, but I just want you to be intentional and and not unintentionally deprioritize something. So a year going for it. All right,
Thank you for making sense. That's actually awesome. Okay, so let me just clarify. Not only did we vote on buckets, but we voted on No we just, we voted on buckets. It just Buckets we just put underneath. Yeah, no there is this way better. Okay. Yeah it was, it was on all. Well I thought I was like, we think it was spreadsheet. No, I think the way that I see the fleet is the highest priority. It was the lowest overall count and then yeah, if you're seeing it and then I can't So you have to fleet in the funding? Yeah, you get the employers. Yep. Yep. This
Doing awesome. That's the first for me. That makes the picture a lot more easier for you. Yeah. All right. So we modernization, follow by funding, follow by partner, attention for service level number five, vessel maintenance and replacement plan six, sales and marketing. Seven. Management, governance, structure section,
Well, I, I, I think, I think, I mean it's up to, I mean if people wanna be available on December 23rd, but I, I just think the Friday after Thanksgiving's just a note now go, yeah, November 4th works. November 4th works, that's three, that's three weeks mail. That's three, three fighters from now. And, and so then if we skip the 20 November 25th, then it was December 2nd. Yep, that works. And then three weeks from that is December 23rd, which is just before people leave for the holidays probably. That might be a tough one. We might not, by the time we get to that December 2nd meeting, the board, you know, I don't know where we'll be. We don't know where we'll be and very well it might be able to say, you know, let's stretch it now to four weeks or we've done our work or we need to squeeze in another meeting next week and then be with it. So let's, we can plan next, next meeting now, you know, Friday's kind of become the structured date for staff and folks. It seems to work to get for, I mean we've, I don't think we've had a, a problem getting a, a majority of quorum. You know, the other option too there is is you know, going, going ahead and planning to meet January 6th, which first January, first Friday and January. And with the idea of finalizing some deliverables for the, sorry, the legislative section. So we have November 1st,
And, and, and this may change, I mean we're really talking about right now. Next meeting go out two more out. I think we have enough to talk about to at least schedule two meetings for sure. And then see where we're at January still for staff. Rob, that and Matt,
January 2nd. Second might I, you never know I was going to volunteer too to talk with Greg and if it's all with forward and just try to get a a TRV a review for the TRV before every meeting. I think just getting report from, from somebody every meeting would be helpful. And I don't mind talking with Greg and doing that if,
Well I, we did a round robin for what we wanted to do. I do wanna do a round robin for wrap up final comments and that can take a little bit of time. So I just wanna make sure we bunched at least a good 20 minutes for that. So this should have, my question shouldn't take that long. So we've got a few questions and then you wanna do some work business, is that that right?
Well if, if there're remaining questions and answers then to go into that and so we have time, but we do have a wrap up with board members on items of particular interest that they want or need more clarification for before we go into our discussion or our next meeting with the short term plan. So I think this, you know, it's up there to make sure that d o t is aware and Amhs is aware, I'm sorry, both of them together are aware of anything that just needs a little extra information before we sit down on top.
Yeah. And, and no, no, that, all right. The second thing, I'd just be curious that in the short term plan, and I know it's not written in spell and I understand that, but I'm, I'm curious to look at like, and GENEGA and 12 million here, 60 million there for ferry terminals, upgrades for the acs, but there's also been discussion within amhs D o T together about possibly outsourcing maybe to, to ti possibly even to Chinga for those funds, just just based on user ridership and other options. And I'm just curious to know where that analysis is gone, if it, if it's still being analyzed, you know, if it's something that's far out there that we don't really need to worry about in the next year, but it sounds like we do, if we're gonna start developing docs for the ACF, then that needed to start. So I I, I would just like to know where we, where we are there and I would, you know, that's good.
Okay. Is, is that the most recent short term plan or if that been updated? Well, you guys gave us a month ago news to me. I mean, I know we're looking at supplemental service all over the place right now. I only have cap and service which, and we breakdown or whatever accruing if you, I don't know of any actual outsourcing that.
Want, So the questions just simply being is, you know, what, what kind of, how are you all looking at that to decide? Do we go ahead and put $16 million in there and make this, I mean, we're kind of making the struggle through Cordo and, and Prince William sound anyway. Yeah. But, or do we or do we not And how does that, you know, does that,
Yeah, I think that looked at I know can get Inga Bay so when crosses to go to, you know, after wheat when it crosses cover from the can cover that, whether that's enough service for Chinga Bay, we have talked to them about. But yeah, I know the commission, you guys looked at outsourcing for the upcoming time when the, when the were and the overall project. So that would give us good indication of demand for that service too. So yeah, I think it's almost still kind of in the process being looked at it. Yeah. Whether yeah, what the, well we know what Thes can do and can do is there right now terms configuration.
But, and, and I guess it's a question for me in the short term because when we, when we're talking about, you know, long term issues, we're looking at, you know, routes, how are we picking routes and prioritizing where we're going, especially if we're using fewer vessels we're using for fewer vessels in the future, it sounds like. But they're far more flexible and able to go other places. So I don't know that you really lose service even though you're taking some vessels out of the fleet. And that, that would be really helpful to, to kind of walk through that.
Question for items in the, what is the process before they get funded and what kind of timeframe is that? Does it have to be included in a budget and approved by the legislature or is that basically what happens? Yeah, sort of all it's, you know, skips of planning document, right. That that's required. And a lot of times, especially this most recent amendment, we put a lot of stuff in there as, as for planning purposes. And then, then we're going after, there's so much grant opportunity available right now, but they have to be in the step in order to go after those grants. So kind of shotgun it a little bit and say, okay, now let's go after grants everywhere and see what Rick actually sticks and hope. We're hopeful we've got, I don't have it in my head, but we, we apply for like 850 million grants right now. That's mega again, think of all their names, but a lot of it has to do with these ports, with trb, with extra Barry with this and that. And, but whether they hit or not, then we do need, you know, legislative authority. So we have to put 'em in the budget, the legislature get that better expenditure authority.
So there's multistep process. Yeah. And how, how long does that take? Something that's in the step now after the legislature has their final budget, would that then have the funding maybe? It depends, you know, so you know, the budget, the legislative budget's one year and the steps of four year plan, right? So you know, like right now we'd be working on, we're working on the federal fiscal 24 planning and it be the state, this be your 24 budget. And then the intent would be if we're, if it's in the budget, we're hoping to act on it soon. That's why we're asking for the legislative authority. But any number of things can happen. We often have any number of reasons for delay. Right. But the intent, if you saw in a budget, you would think we're moving on it. That would be our intent.
Cisco mentioned that. Next on his list is the Columbia CPP project, and then after that the Matt Nuka, are those funded or not? Well, those both are on the, the grant request right now they're out for grant request. They're in the step. So we're kind of waiting to see, you know, we have our normal formula programs too. We have very low discretionary, we have normal set highway money, so it all kind of balances out. We're really being aggressive with these grants to capture that opportunity. And they're, we're not successful. We might reprogram, you know, other than highway money that's, that's compete with everything across the state. That's a little challenge.
It's a tough question. We often get asked that and like the TRV people ask it, it funded and I'm like sort of, yeah, it's plant. Okay. I mean the CRV is all I intents and purposes we're going after it. We're trying to get grant money right now, but that doesn't work. We're gonna fund it in another way, right? Whether that's normal Fed Highway money or gardening, whatever, you know, it's happening proceeding with that one. But, but to say it's funded right now, I, we have a full intent to fund it, but I can't tell you how it's gonna be funded yet.
Another short term question. Yeah. The other question, so I talked to f in, we talked Toto about this was the, the in on the, or was given the, and the service day of 2027. That's what the review is based on. And the long and short of that is, I'm figuring we're gonna leave the Matt News good around 2035. So the question of this now is when you're looking at this before we start getting replacements and stuff, is do we go back to the Coast Guard and ask them to relook at the Bata before we do this cabin deck remodel, I think is kind of another one of those where it might be in the major remodeled re conversion, re conversion. Cuz if you got, we're gonna spend that much money on it, you put it in in 25 and it comes out in 27 and they're gonna go, Well yeah, again, now you can't do this cause you didn't do this, this, or this.
It seems to me like we're going in into this with we, that's what I was told. You know, we hope or we think, and I I I think it'd be beneficial, like Shirley was said, is to actually get, I think that the fairs that Yout needs to make and an actual formal request of the Coast Guard to say what do we need to do to run this boat to 2035? Because the odds of us we're gonna least need it to 20 32, 20 32. That's before we're gonna have another mainline or someone there. I mean, first mainline is gonna be maybe 2030. You're still gonna just vote as a, as a, a backup or a second or the Rupert vote or whatever the plans are. That just seems to me that it'd be beneficial to ask permission instead of be asking forgiveness later. It's like, what do you, what do you exactly want us to do instead of going into this with we think this is what you want.
And, and that's kind of the way I see where that's, that's going. And so I know they're leery about asking that cuz additional regulations, but I don't know if there's a way out of that right now based on where we need to go at the vessel. So you guys know a lot more about that project than I do details of it. So we should get back with F and Cisco and talk that out. Someone doesn't seem to be resolved, tell so let's get it there. Yeah, well Cisco said they would considered going back and talking to 'em, but I don't know if that was the firm, firm answer.
This is Kevin Falvey here. You know, I've talked to Cisco about that, you know, that would be the third time back to the Coast Guard, you know, and we know we got the 20 20 27, you know, end date and if you read the Boston Austin paper, the one in June very closely, we also know that they think, okay, we're talking about we think, you know, doing the complete, you know, cabin deck is gonna be what, you know, gets us beyond 2027. If we don't do that, they feel pretty strongly they're boat's done in 2027. Yeah, I always get into the potential of midlife conversion type stuff and going down that trial, which isn't, which isn't good. It it it's, it's risky. It, it's very risky going back and trying to get, you know, something else from the Coast Guard. But I mean it's, once again, we can can talk about it some more. It's a tricky one. This is a very, very difficult one. But yeah, we can talk some more about that. And a go forward strategy.
Questions. Okay. And also, I guess for the next meeting too, if we can get, if we can get something that shows us the changes to the test from the last time we saw the design it, it sounds like it's changed considerably. If we can get that presented to us so we can see it. So as we're getting an update for Greg, we can follow through questions on battery rooms and cards and whole design and all that and stuff. So that would be a, a formal request on behalf of the board.
Yes. Let's go ahead and move to the next item then the regular. And that was, we talked about dates and new times for the short term plan. Dates and times for the HO meetings for at least definitely the next two, possibly the next three in, in, in, in theory. Then the intention of November, Friday, November 4th, Friday, December 2nd, January, Friday, January 6th, 2023. In anticipation of deliverable products for the legislative
That's up to staff and board. Rob do you, Matt, do you have any druthers? Is it easier to meet for your business day in the morning? We, we've kind of turned into afternoon creatures so maybe we should stick with one to 4, 1 30 to four 30. I mean one can be tough if people are trying to go have lunch to get back somewhere. So would you like to stick with one 30 our usual one 30 and go to four 30 Once four we we agreed to four hour meeting. Five 30. Five 30 on a Friday.
Okay, that's fine. And at that first meeting you Yeah we will be definitely on the short term plan the, our next steps and for four hours that might take up the whole four hours and it would be helpful to just have a, an update Matt on plan B, C, and D for staffing shortages here through the winter and into the summer. What, you know, how you're looking at tying up vessels if need be to get that crew onto a shift that takes a priority route. Would just like to, to hear how that, how you're working through that
We had. We had one where the guy's uncle died and we lost two people because of that and they, they were able to find his bodies last minute. That was when we agreed tie up. Yeah. And it just, it's, it's so random from, you know, it's just we need more body. So it's, it's gonna be nice if we can find another probably still need 50 different even that run in the Columbia next summer, don't we? 50 75. I I don't even know how many still short. Right.
And and that's kind of the conversation that I'm thinking, you know, we're looking at putting a lot of money into the Columbia to run cuz she, you know, she's a money moneymaker out in the summer, but at what point do you say maybe it's not worth doing something like that with Columbia and taking crew members if you can and, and utilizing, you know, kind caught Matt Nuka, whomever to make that run. So that, that's, that's kind of that, that's what I'm hoping that at this meeting with the short term, you can just bring back and just tell us, you know, this is, we're not throwing dart at the board. Although sometimes things come up and you have to, you, you have no other choice as long, as long as we know that and understand that it's out in the public sphere, it goes a long way for helping people to understand why there a vessel may not be running or you know, why being caught up. That's all. Whatever it would, this is more from a long term perspective than what, what's happening now or likely to happen in the near term. But with the fleet modernization and the hopefully flattening of the types of vessels that we have are, are we reducing the complexity of the labor question? Because, because I understand that, you know, you have to have a crew compliment with certain licensure and, and capabilities for different vessels. But are we moving towards, you know, simplifying that matrix with the new vessels? Oh. And or how can we do that?
Yeah, I think we're a little more to simplifying that as well. I mean as far as well we move more to standardization or standard ships. I mean every of course we don't want standardized that Columbia size going everywhere. That's not efficient either. But, but moving more to yeah, standardized on new flips ships, that's gonna help with the crewing issues. Well because there's more consistent of what licenses and routes. I mean we're gonna be more consistent of what we need for those two. Are you talking number of crew or are you talking
Okay, Captain and Denali and Kim, thank you for walking us through this process. I'm so glad that you did. It was just so nice to be able to, to just work as a group and to kind of talk things out. We haven't had the opportunity to do that really before we met in one of our first meetings, but we had just enough information to be dangerous at that point and we're marginally better now. So, so this was really helpful and it's good to have folks here and Norm, thank you for dialing in all day on there in the living room. I'm sure it's not that fun. Please continue to get better and we hope to see you to our next in person meeting, wherever that may be. Thank you. Your, don't just come to the Pelican, you can come but you can never leave. Thank you Norm. Very briefly, I'll just turn it over and we'll go around the table for any last comments. Captain Hillard. No, this
Was a really nice meeting. Thank you to both of you for coming and facilitating. It was, it was nice to I I feel we got a lot done. Yeah, this says a quick note. Frank Burkowski came to Petersburg and he gave, he wanted to do a, you know, a talk on getting Petersburg to help fund the second Iffa ferry. But he says they run on $9,000 a day, so it's just comparison and they have one ship that's unused, so I don't know how that never affect anything. It's interesting that they, they feel that the service is so bad they're trying to ask the communities to fund additional fields. Yeah. Thank
Wanna thank Allie for, she took a lot of time before this meeting to kinda see where we needed to go. That was really great. Appreciate that. And I do feel like we've together a little bit, which is nice. I'm happy. I'm happy again, I can't, a Thatt wants to work with the board and so whatever bridges we need to make and I think it makes big strides today. So I'm excited for the future. Thanks
Arrangements and I'm sure there's folks here at the anchor as well. Thanks to everybody, especially for those of you that had to travel. I appreciate it and I do apologize again for my earlier distractions. Okay. Norm, do you have anything you'd like to share with the body before we leave? Last comment.
To other, to left. There you go. Sometimes check it out. You guys tell me if this for the group. Okay, see the one right by your right hand there. Alaska class varies and operations. Yeah, that should go over. Those are the ones you watching this, That fairs an Operation Joe.
I think maybe, you know, we're talking about service levels. Community service, reliable service. Dedicated operational funding needs to be up there. Cause about that you don't have, that's, that's how the entire services figure. So straight up with community service, central minimum service
It seems to me that during all of the process we've gone through since created all information that's been going through after a while I've started to, it's just really necessary. But what it has done for me is it's given me what I think of, of what the problem has been for the last few years. Funding
Uncertainty of funding drives people not to want to come to work for, for a, for an organization modernization. If you're running old ships that are in the dye dock all the time, you don't have an efficient operation and it's costing you more money. So it all gets right back to where is the top leader of everything. We should try to for focus ourselves on just come up with what we wanna put into a five year plan that'll drive us to that point of increasing sales, good employees, all of the rest of this stuff. So it comes with dollars and a modern fleet. From there you come down to everything else that goes with it. So is this the, the structure of our long term plan is what we're talking about?
All right. Thank you. Norm, we're gonna put this, they said under the snowflake, if you can't see that, it's just a picture with the mother's like Reasonables, some of the other brighter ship stuff and sales and marketing. Cool. Okay, let's do the mountain. All right, So we've got all shifts in operation during summer. Community serve, reliable service, community service. Service level, dedicated operational funding. What words come to mind when you look at these ideas?
So my question for Matt is when you're looking at, at, at forecasting for ridership to come up with your budget and with how many ships are gonna be available to even be out of the shipyard, when you think of the modernization of the fleet, are you able to kind of forecast what may be ridership in some of the communities where the members of riders have gone down? If there's a more reliable and timely service? If that's if, is that a business question?
What service we provided and what that's been. The traffic, I mean I think of for example, I mean we have at one point we ran them out as a day up there and you know that's a lot capacity like now but it didn't change the rise. So, but at the same time we're, we definitely had to look a lot closer with, you know, the limited crew, you know, crew sizes. So we can't run as many ships. We have money to run 'em but you know, staffing is, is short to operate the ship. So we've had to, I know Carrie, our scheduler talks a lot with community leaders on what wouldn't be provided to cover their needs for the community. So, and to meet their demands. But it's kind what we do look at. Yeah, try to forecast future demand of what, what the community are gonna need.
And that's based on something, you know, that we know that we've dealt with in the past. And I'm wondering if this forecasted growth demand is for new growth different and I would assume maybe whether it's by, I don't know, seafood businesses, shipping containers or more people coming up from lower 48 or from print ruper.
Yeah. And there's lot that I know. And usually the way that happens is either through our public comment period of schedule or schedule or I mean our schedule is to talk communities here around, they're calling. So what I would encourage, what we encourage if there's, you know, communities to need, you know, they have something coming up or some something economically, maybe they wanna move more, more services or more things like fishing industry. Boost that in there. They need more service to help with that. I mean to, to talk to us and get alert to let us know. We've lost a lot of our, our LTI service fan service cuz Right. Reliability. So a lot of that goes back into reliable service and service level.
Let me just make sure we're all on the same page. So I was here and we added forward and then somebody said, Oh, should we put that under service level? Are we still think, is that where we wanna go or what do you guys think? And then I have sales and marketing went down there for a minute. So we need to come back to that. And then I have some new card. So may I start here? Here And then we still need here we can change your mind.
I think if you feel it would be of service for clarity purposes, you can always have the same card in more than once. So I like, I just don't feel like you have to pick. Cause they, they all are intertwined, right? So that's an option too. So let's, let's see what you have to say. And then
Bad. All right, so Kim's gonna make one to replace, put it here to honor the, it was one and then, but it sounds like you've got I'm gonna do these now. Cool. All right. Con contracted customer survey. Are you thinking here? Marketing all that? I kinda did it without everybody.
Hm. Has there ever been an outside, professionally hired, look at what the people last to walk like, gone out. I mean I know we've done, I know we've done studies to look at the fleet overall, but as far as the businesses and stuff, what, like in the sales and marketing arena have we asked can what maybe new services that the fairies could provide or, you know, something increased revenue. Is that Matt? You you work with the
Yeah. I don't know if that was really included in this. I mean there was a tariff study and a economic impact study done, but I don't think that was really specifically part of it. We used to have an outside agency do our surveys, but specifically asking for things like that for what they'd like to see. I don't know if there's really good official study. I mean Captain f May, he's been around longer than me. He'd probably remember better than I do if there's so to that specific, but I don't know. I would say could seller, could a business and probably just ship a a one band every community out of Bellingham. Which family?
Would just like to add that I think the whole scheduling process is very, is always very cognizant of community level needs and incorporates. So I mean that is a form of market research to say what is, what are your needs and how can we best serve them? You know, the system can't always, and I don't think should always adapt to, you know, every need community by community. But I think the system does a, a tremendous amount of, of work to
All right, I'm gonna move it salon. Okay. I've got a few more cards here. Thank you there. The gift I keep on giving. So partner with communities on marketing. Yeah, you, That was a while ago, huh? I gotta get these up on the wall before come up. So we all right. Balance size, sleep.
Yeah man, I can tell you what we do. Look how we, I mean we're looking at a, the ship to per week, they're fairly fixed. I mean, cause the crew's there, right? The fuel may change depending on what you do. But as long as we can cover the, the demand for the higher round route or busier routes, then I mean that's not necessarily a priority. But we do cover like, we go between home or Kodak, we go, you know, so no is a smaller candy, the old harbor, some of those smaller communities too. We're never, we're gonna make high revenue there, but, so we're going between over time the schedule, there's time in that weekly cycle before the crew change. But you know, Carrie works in to cover all those communities and connect them to where they meet. The winter is a little more challenging, especially when we tough far is when we start getting into our halls when we don't have the flexibility of other ships. And then that gets pretty tough when like say the test goes into overhaul having something else, the kenne can cover it, right? That's a lot bigger of course. But, but yeah, it's a balance. And we've been given and the goal has changed. I mean, question is the revenue is providing service, finding that balance
Well, I have a question, Matt. I I, I know I asked Yeah. About this. I thought I ccd you in that email. Could the, could you give us the cost to run a ship per week to the board for each ship so we know what we're looking at? Cause I found that somewhere and I don't know where I found it that I, we provided, I, I can pay most of 'em up on my head, but I may be off a middle on my head. Cause the Ken, like I say, three 80 smaller ships are down, I think 180,000
Park that I'm, I'm just looking at the clock. I want us to have a break in a 90 minute point. So don't forget about that. It sounds important. And if we wanna put it on our, we're gonna get to the point where we've got some to do other conversations. So let's get that on there. We got three new ones. But in the interest of time, I'm gonna get up through this and then I'm gonna add these to 'em and if we need to create another one, we'll, all right, so a stress staffing shortage, instate recruiting staff, succession plan, employees, full staffing and kechika management succession plan. Now
All right. I'll tell you what, we'll just leave it where it at so we know that somebody actually got that. And then we'll make a new one. Everyone live with that employee support. Do you want retention on there? Yes. Employee support and retention. You wanna move it that way because you want it to be prioritized over the other. Yeah, without that you don't have, Right now we don't have the people to run the fleet. We have. Yeah, that's cool. Why don't we,
Yet. I did order the number, but I mean, I think that's a great point. Big again, sorry. You know, we're just, we're just getting them all up here. We're agreeing on words. Its be used and then, I mean, you may or may not decide to prioritize. I think that's the decision point that you wanna make. So let's just keep on trucking here, right? Safety, safety, safety management and governance structure approved long term plan. I think that should just be label long term plan. Yeah. If that's like everything we're doing here.
Agree either. Okay. All right. So I heard both could go into service level a second on that. All. Okay, so we've got some new families. We've got vessel maintenance, scheduled maintenance, short, long term maintenance and vessel upgrade and replacement plan, and then approved long term plan here. And this one's got dedicated operational funding, sustainable biannual operations, funding management, governance structure and structure.
It's not just a maintenance issue. It's whole sy whole system. And it is cause I mean we've just got a, a dedicated planner coming on board and there's, there's a whole suite of plan that have to live under a long plan that are tracked. And so I don't, I don't, I'm not, I don't have the language right now, but it seems to me that they are all related far beyond, you know, standard maintenance. We need scheduled vessel maintenance. Yes. But we need, yeah, we need, we need, we need a, a comprehensive and thoughtful cadence of plan from long term down to, Okay,
So like I feel like this is kind of like all about planning is what I'm hearing. That's you're gonna have all these baby plans. Babies are actually yeah, but like one saying a of plan and this is kind like how that's all gonna happen probably up in anyway, but you know, y'all want that.
Yeah. From that our responsibility overall is, you know, this long term plan, but then subordinate under that long term plan has to be a suite of plans that deal with, you know, asset management, vessel replacement, scheduled maintenance, even to some degree the the staffing plan are, are part of, of this planning process
Well, we wanna look at operational but also what about looking further, further out in the future for replacement as well. Like, you know, that's where our vessel maintenance replacement plan comes in and I I j money and they kind of belong together in some way. But, but we don't know. We don't know. I I j and I'm thinking beyond. I I So we do these three and then, you know, 50 years out we're gonna Right. Yeah. Well I mean one, one thing, one thing about all of this that
Was speaking right over here. I was just gonna say the thing about the I I J A money and the reason I think it probably should just stay in the fleet modernization is we don't have any guarantees for it in the, and I think that we need to think about sustainability from other sources of funding the fleet, the fleet vessel maintenance and fleet replacement issue. In reality, we don't, we do not bear the cost of capital to operate this system. For the most part we bear the operating costs for, for this system. And so, you know, it's always sort of been the case that we get federal highway money or, or some special capital appropriation for vessel maintenance and replacement. And so I, I do think that from a governance and management standpoint, that that question always needs to be out there. And the, certainly the question needs to be, because I think we lost sight of that and lost sight of, because we were grappling perhaps with other internal funding and sustainability issues that we didn't get out in front of the needs to get that capital in place when it needed to be there.
Well we, we also have to, we also have to get the match for it. And I'm just gonna tell you that the trigger number for deficit going back into a deficit condition for the state of Alaska is $87 a barrel. And I think we are under that already. And so that means no forward funding education. That means no savings. That means a lot of things that, that this is, this is a lot of wishful thinking when we still have to come up with a 20% match. It's not just a gimme based on the guidance that's coming out of treasury for that money. So it's not just a dedicated appropriation to Alaska. It's Alaska has to come up with the match. And, and also, and Matt, can you or Rob, can you update us on that money? We've talked about it a couple times and like, you know, treasury change the language from the intent of the language that Lisa Markowski put in the bill. And we, last time we talked a month and a half ago, it was really unclear to, to everybody what kind of funding was actually going to be available for the state of Alaska.
Separate because we get the funds, but then how their budget is, and then also there's revenue generation too. So sort of like a three tiered approach to being our money program. Well I, I think I, maybe the aspirational piece here is, you know, a diverse portfolio of revenue. I don't know how to exactly say that, but yeah, budgeting is something completely different. But budgeting is a fixed pie view of the world. World revenue is a grow the pie view of the world. Yeah. So Kim's gonna write the word funding for up here and I kind of feel like what you just said might be nice in a down below. Okay. Okay.
Seems to me that when we get talking about funding, we got two things operational that we have vessel purchase. So the I ija funds, we've got funds coming in from sales of old vessels. And if you're thinking about in the long term of trying to plan out, we could use the recommendations that came in the 1960s. So let's bond, let's built some various, let's go out do it. Why can't we throw bonding in here somewhere along the way to give us that long term effect. Mean they could pass a bond in the next couple years. It might fund the ferry in five, six year, 10 years, but to get the approval through a bond, those might be the efforts
That I think Alaska has to be a good, a good bet. And I just don't think we are right now because if you look at the debt load per capita for the state of Alaska, we're the highest in the nation period into report. And that's a, that's aism right there, period into report. Right.
Doing it. I know it doesn't stop us from doing it, but at some point, just like the national debt, we've gotta say. And, and you know, it's just like anything else. Is Alaska a good bet for, for investing in a home or building a business or investing in a mine or anything else when we have this huge debt load per capita. And, and that's really, you know, I mean when, when like, you know, I mean the Garvey bond is a different situation because it's against a, a known revenue stream that's coming in over time, but bonding against and, and I mean, I'll tell you cuz just cuz I'm writing a report on this issue with state debt is that, you know, bonding for infrastructure, I just think it's a big loser for, it's a big loser for Alaska because we can't build the infrastructure fast enough to realize any external benefit from that, that would generate more revenue to pay off the bond. And that's, that's really where we're stuck. I and I and I hear you hear every word you're saying and a great items like that. I think under revenue portfolio, you know, this is an element for long, over five years, three years down the road where it might be the five years down the road, who knows? But it would be all of those items that would be under a revenue portfolio instead of taking it out specifically by itself per se.
Of course, obviously when you've got ot, ams, OT to omb, finally to the governor and then to the legislature. So there timeframes and we know when the governor's gonna put his budget out, we have to back out. OMB has to be able to present if they're going to present it to us. I mean they could bring it to us and say, okay, deadline's tomorrow here, look at this. And there we are, but we don't. And at that point in time I think we don't make any comments on it. We just say we didn't have time. You know, so I mean those are the things that we have to deal with. We don't know yet. We don't have that deadline from new Can we make comments on the draft plan? Yeah, I think we're better off to say something than nothing Alan. Even, even if it's, you know, just on, for us being in board, even though we're new, there's no reason why we can't put something on paper and saying, Yes, we agree with this. No, we don't agree with this. Okay, what we know this is I'll back up and say yes. Yeah. Cause I mean that's all we're doing is we, all we can do is do the best of what knowledge we have now and say we agree with this short term plan and keep going forward.
Consider. That's what he's saying is I'm not asking you to do that. I'm asking you, I'm asking them to give to us so we can review it and we can make logical decisions and sit down and talk about it as a group, maybe one or two or three meetings so we can do something and present it. Yeah, the real case in HB 63 deals back was after the thing is approved and next the following year, did they follow it? Did they do what they said they do? If they didn't, then we have an op, then we write to the legislation, we write to the camera, we don't make recommendations. But right now we're in a position where we're only making recommendations until we get something that we can go back and say, okay, this was the plan. Did they follow it all? I think we'll be viewed as a do nothing board if we do that.
Well I think what, what could be said, I mean again, this, this is all speculative, we don't know, Rob's not here at the moment about when those deadlines are right. But like for example, the legislative session starts on January 17th, 2023. Typically there's, there's 30 day deadlines usually from the beginning of the legislative session for most agencies to get their reports into the legislature. So, so sometimes between January 17th and February 16th there's gonna be a lot of reports going into the legislature. So sometimes after that maybe then we reflect, Shirley and I were just talking that, that any set of recommendations that we might move forward to the legislature during the next legislative session probably need to be in by March 15th. And so that does give us a timeframe and some, maybe some, you know, book ends for some meetings and a work product. If, if we get a work product from d o t with a short term plan and says that essentially we can say we've received it, the board is reviewing it and just as just said, we really feel that the board's role will be in evaluating the system against the plan and whether or not they met their intentions and embodied in the,
I had her hand up a while ago. Well I was just think it'd be nice to have a line items what we're supposed to be doing and then work with cot, work with Catherine on this is the timeline, get that established. I'm looking back at this item number nine of where we're supposed to provide performance goals to the department, you know, and then on top of that, our recommendations on the long term plan in the comments from short term plan, we should document that and try to get a timeline set out. So that was at the forefront, right?
The next steps. Short term plan is definitely pretty high. It seems to me a little but like some low hanging fruit that would make a difference for us if we could get after it and to keep components. There are the budget we can get an operating capital budget recommendation going into understand this budget and the legislature be together, you know, we're, we're planning already for next summer. It's difficult, tended to put a schedule out year in advance, but given our reliability issues with crewing now, not so PEs, we're a little leery on putting things too far out in advance at this moment. But doesn't mean, so we're looking at a budget though still for over a year away. It doesn't start till January, 2024 cause we're on this county, the budget phase right now. But anyway, getting that input on capital plan going forward, some kind of kind of official board recommendation would be pretty neat I think to at least have that accomplishment. And whether that's part of the short term plan or not, I dunno. And today I was think we might like keep was some kinda product, but maybe that's not yet. We just often become some kind cohesive agreement moving forward.
Suggest that the board on this draft like that next, getting that the line items of our duties and working with COT to establish the timeline on them. And then, so today if we could move out of our work, our work group into our official meeting and approve, approve these un draft line items of duties. Timeline, Yeah. And work with cot to establish timeline duties or or work product that, you know, we required to put out. Yeah,
Yes, I have several things I'd like to discuss in that, that timeframe. So that gives us the remainder of this time to prioritize these columns and, and I, I believe we should prioritize these columns and, and get a picture of them and bring this in the, in the short term plan to the next meeting.
Motion mark read s****y right? Pardon me? You want me to read that? If you wanna make a motion while me go back into regular session tab our, I just wanted make sure it was draft wrong range plan. Do you want me to write my other motions down that I want? Yeah, write 'em down for you. Yeah, that's just helped. No, I haven't written down. Let's, you want me to make this back to them? I guess. You know, 63,
Meeting I'm not available that much. So yeah, it's, and I think we're past that point where we need to so much we're though magnify screen. So is it, I thought that somebody had a picture that you can't, you like screen share? It's, I just emailed it to form but it's before all the numbers not be able to see it. I know. Don't worry. We'll vote for you Norm. Thank you. Thank you very much. Sign the check and send it over. Oh dear. Next to the mail. Send the LA out to pick it up. It'll actually be here tomorrow.
All let see what so pretty before. Okay, well know what one, one number one we off the the top one cause they can see what they say. We're having a little down there. The title just, yeah, that was okay. Can read it. I mean as long as you can read the title at that thing, that's fine. So we're gonna need a spreadsheet. I dunno how quickly that's gonna happen, but yeah, so I think, you know, 1, 3, 4, 5, 6, 1 on monitorization. So that would become number one. Well I was kinda wondering why you guys did all the numbers but you, Well you said that you do individually. I didn't say do your thing. You guys already doing so it's not I nobody voted for safety. Nope, we don't need to. It's overarching Uncover the title, you can lead the rest. Oh, okay. Yeah.
Thank you for doing that. Well how much is my cut of the day? I know we've got some three people online. We don't know if any of them want to testify. Let's come back to this. So can we, can I check the prioritized cone? Yes. No team. Alright for that. Dang. Let's see. So it seems like there was an interest in the board taking action after that's on the list for today. Yes. Discussion about next meeting. And then there's, I have a, I have a question to occupy time, kill a few minutes. Does that work for others or, and, and Rob I'm not picking on you. Well, hang on. So a request, one moment.
Well, we talked about that proposal was every three weeks in order to stretch that turnaround time out just a little bit to get the information that we need. But, but not once a month because we still have some work to do and instead of two hour meetings, a four hour meeting. Okay. Every three weeks. And once we get through the legislative process, this board may decide now we need, you know, we can meet once every two months, you know, hard to say, but we'll just have to see where we are quarterly. I knew you were gonna say this. So let me just say that, that that meeting pattern, that meeting cadence would, would put us if we continue to meet on Fridays, would put us on the Friday after Thanksgiving, which I think is unrealistic. So, so that would put us November 4th, skip the 25th and go to December 2nd. And then December 16th, I I, I'm sorry, December 16th would be December 23rd would be three weeks.
We've let him never made a motion to change the meeting times before. So if the board wants to make a motion to, to change that to each three weeks, you're, you're more than welcome to do so. I think as long as we say what the next meeting date is at the end of the meeting Right, then that gives staff direction for noticing. Yeah. So if not, you know, you, you don't have to, but it's, it's, it's certainly up to you. And then draft
Framework and we were wondering in a couple, if we're talking last night about losing public comment to maybe just the end come at the end of the meeting so we have an idea of what they might wanna discuss for the next meeting too. Or do we leave it where it is at the beginning and the end? So
I I, I think the reason to have it at the beginning and the end, particularly at the beginning is because when members of the public do want to be heard, we wanna make sure we hear what they have to say before we may have our deliberations and make decisions. And when we leave their only opportunity after we've already come to some sort of an agreement or, you know, work through things, they're like, well we've already decided. Now I can tell you what I think, but now it doesn't matter. So I I I would strongly encourage us to keep both. It's not terribly time consuming, especially if we're gonna for our meeting, that it really ensures that more of a public trust
We don't, I mean it's not a time issue. It's more of a trust issue and being pardon. And again, I would strongly encourage some of the worst times ever at council meetings, at least in Alaska were when folks tried to make changes to the public comment time. And people who never came in and commented two meetings before filled the chambers said, this is telling us that you don't care what we have to say because you're not giving us the chance to be heard before you deliberate make your decision. So that's the only reason that most, you know, and most meetings, public meetings, you'll see public comment at the beginning of the meeting for anyone and they might not be able to stay to the end of the meeting and then again at the end. So again, I would strongly caution us to, to know up down that road.
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